03-12-2003, 06:32 AM
I'll make this brief since I'm obviously just wearing down my fingers.
1. If you call Jordan insignificant, you don't leave many possibles to the significant ones. Besides your original claim did not even mention significance.
2. Maybe the Israelis should earn the trust of the Arabs, and not vice versa. Ever thought of that? Maybe there should be some effort from both sides. Maybe Israel abiding by UN resolutions would be a good first step.
3. Your suggestion about Arabs opening trade to Israel is hilarious considering the US policy has been since the time of Wilson to punish undesireable regimes with sanctions, boycotts, even not recognizing them. Heck, I also read the article on last week's Time about "hugging them to death". I don't really agree with that article. (re: US opening trade with NK, etc.)
4. Now wait a minute there mister. I have at no time said that Israel has no right to exist. This is typical argument that I see coming from people who have militant pro-zionist views. It is very underhanded tactic. Shame on you.
5. In modern civilized world, civilized regimes do not treat civilians as combatants. Israel is acting like Milosevic. You can't justifiably punish a 99% innocent civilian population for the actions for a handful. You likewise acnnot expect said civilians to risk their lives to stop that handful. Blame Arafat if you like, thought I think that he's so incompetent, that he actually doesn't have any real control over the extremists anymore.
6. Eh, frankly speaking Israel is a greater risk to stability than Iraq. But it's not a question about that. The question is why is Israel allowed to ignore dozens, actually hundreds (800+) of UN resolutions and declarations? If any other country would do that, even one considered totally civilized and harmless, say Sweden, there would've been very serious consequences.
7. Incidentally I've also lived in a Soviet puppet state, and not just as a kid. Yet, I can tell you, that the adversities the Palestinians face on West Bank is something even Poles were not subjected to. For example, in Warsaw it was not usual for 5km travel to work take 3-4 hours because of constant checks, searches (even strip), probes and other kind of fascism.
Damn, even in Leningrad, SSSR, the miliza didn't point you with an automated rifle just because of your ethnic group, or for any other non-reason for that matter. The only comparable places in (guess) your lifetime would've been apartheid era South Africa, and Banja Luka, Sarajevo, etc. during the Bosnian holocaust.
8. While you might like to hide behind your passport, (btw - isn't it nice how in some French movies those US tourists screaming "you can't do this to me, I'm an American citizen" always get killed in most gruesome ways? ;) ), I choose not to. I prefer to try to blend in, and experience the society as it is, and not as it is presented to outsiders. Ofcource success in most places is not that great, nor long lived. (language, drastic difference in appearance etc.)
Also, I choose to visit hotspots, lengthy period in former Jugoslavia for example. Might get killed some day because of it, but well at least I'm that much richer in experience. :P
9. We can fight our upbringing only that much. I believe that you're a worldy and intelligent American. I still think your views are polluted by the US media (and the society that the media has helped to shape) As for original topic, that seemed to get sidetracked already on the first page, IIRC you were not the least to blame for it. :P
In any case, should we meet by accident at a far away foreign land, let me buy you a drink of their local rat poison (ie. bad local drink). Cheap Ukrainian vodka (done from fermented potato peels) for example can be quite an experience, if you don't go blind from it. ;)
1. If you call Jordan insignificant, you don't leave many possibles to the significant ones. Besides your original claim did not even mention significance.
2. Maybe the Israelis should earn the trust of the Arabs, and not vice versa. Ever thought of that? Maybe there should be some effort from both sides. Maybe Israel abiding by UN resolutions would be a good first step.
3. Your suggestion about Arabs opening trade to Israel is hilarious considering the US policy has been since the time of Wilson to punish undesireable regimes with sanctions, boycotts, even not recognizing them. Heck, I also read the article on last week's Time about "hugging them to death". I don't really agree with that article. (re: US opening trade with NK, etc.)
4. Now wait a minute there mister. I have at no time said that Israel has no right to exist. This is typical argument that I see coming from people who have militant pro-zionist views. It is very underhanded tactic. Shame on you.
5. In modern civilized world, civilized regimes do not treat civilians as combatants. Israel is acting like Milosevic. You can't justifiably punish a 99% innocent civilian population for the actions for a handful. You likewise acnnot expect said civilians to risk their lives to stop that handful. Blame Arafat if you like, thought I think that he's so incompetent, that he actually doesn't have any real control over the extremists anymore.
6. Eh, frankly speaking Israel is a greater risk to stability than Iraq. But it's not a question about that. The question is why is Israel allowed to ignore dozens, actually hundreds (800+) of UN resolutions and declarations? If any other country would do that, even one considered totally civilized and harmless, say Sweden, there would've been very serious consequences.
7. Incidentally I've also lived in a Soviet puppet state, and not just as a kid. Yet, I can tell you, that the adversities the Palestinians face on West Bank is something even Poles were not subjected to. For example, in Warsaw it was not usual for 5km travel to work take 3-4 hours because of constant checks, searches (even strip), probes and other kind of fascism.
Damn, even in Leningrad, SSSR, the miliza didn't point you with an automated rifle just because of your ethnic group, or for any other non-reason for that matter. The only comparable places in (guess) your lifetime would've been apartheid era South Africa, and Banja Luka, Sarajevo, etc. during the Bosnian holocaust.
8. While you might like to hide behind your passport, (btw - isn't it nice how in some French movies those US tourists screaming "you can't do this to me, I'm an American citizen" always get killed in most gruesome ways? ;) ), I choose not to. I prefer to try to blend in, and experience the society as it is, and not as it is presented to outsiders. Ofcource success in most places is not that great, nor long lived. (language, drastic difference in appearance etc.)
Also, I choose to visit hotspots, lengthy period in former Jugoslavia for example. Might get killed some day because of it, but well at least I'm that much richer in experience. :P
9. We can fight our upbringing only that much. I believe that you're a worldy and intelligent American. I still think your views are polluted by the US media (and the society that the media has helped to shape) As for original topic, that seemed to get sidetracked already on the first page, IIRC you were not the least to blame for it. :P
In any case, should we meet by accident at a far away foreign land, let me buy you a drink of their local rat poison (ie. bad local drink). Cheap Ukrainian vodka (done from fermented potato peels) for example can be quite an experience, if you don't go blind from it. ;)