Korea: What if we just left?
#50
Quote:Please let it go

Now that is probably very good advice but I have been trying to work something out that is pertinent so I'll visit this thread a last time to explain it

My point concerns the character of Kim Jong Il

I think that this comment is pertinent:
Quote:Bun-bun: Gauging the mind of Kim Jong Il seems an impossible task

I also think it's wrong, at least to some extent

Now one thing I think we can all agree on is that North Korea is an autocratic government firmly under the control of one man

The posts in this thread have primarily been concerned with demonising him

Now I'd like to offer an alternative view, a view that the demons are in the system not the personality.

The Western democracies may or may not have great leaders of shining moral integrity. Probably at times they do not.

But what essentially keeps the system working well is the rule of law. Even a crook like Nixon had to give way to a more honest leader when exposed

Now in North Korea, maybe there too what is really at fault is not the leader, not "that fruit loop" as one poster called him but the system itself

Let's consider again the incident of the bodyguard who was shot for using an ashtray. It sounds like a maddog psycho thing to do, doesn't it?

I want to do a little role-play

You are the other bodyguard in that lift. You see the Boss shoot Bodyguard1 for stubbing out a cigarette

Do you
a) keep your mouth shut
b ) make sure the story reaches the Western Press without your boss' permission, even knowing that your boss kills people on the slightest provocation

It's a) isn't it?

So the fact that the story did reach the West means that that is what Kim wanted to happen.

So if Kim wanted a story like that it is not unreasonable to infer that he manufactured it, that he shot the bodyguard not for using the ashtray but to produce a story that would strike terror into anyone thinking of crossing him?

It's basically spin, ie he's basically doing his job

(Not defending him here, I actually view that as more loathsome than criminal insanity, just means that there is a rationale and hence a rational human being here)

So, admittedly that I've built that on a string of speculations, does that not give us a believable characterisation of a power-hungry leader. In fact a very similar leader to the ones who run our countries?

Consolidate power, create spin, intimidate opponents if it's going to benefit you. The methods are different and the crucial difference of the rule of law is absent but the actual behaviour of the Head of State as a political animal is not so different

Now if Kim is calculating rather than mad then it makes him more possible to deal with

Which is why now would be a very good time to withdraw the American troops

Right now America is stronger in world politics than it ever has been. It is the only fully-fledged superpower, it has a successful and aggressive foreign policy and it has a track record of invincibility in recent years. The famous quote (from Liddy?) "Never start a land war in Asia" now sounds like the disgruntled whining of an inferior generation of statesmen

So if Kim is an opportunist the time to remove those troops is now. He still has no window for success because neither China nor Russia will back him in an attempt to take over the South. Nuclear blackmail is pretty suicidal considering that he (almost certainly) can't nuke the US, but the US can nuke him. It's a bad time to bluff when you visibly have much more to lose

Because likewise, if we take Kim as an opportunist, then if at some future time America becomes heavily committed elsewhere and needs to withdraw those forces then Kim is that much more likely to strike

So take the troops out while you don't have problems elsewhere, not when you do

Because at some stage America will lose its international military dominance (simple historical process) and that is probably what this guy and possibly those who succeed him will wait for

Ultimately, the hoped-for solution must be peaceful union of Korea. If the stationed troops offer more hope of that then they should stay. But I just don't see that they do

I think that the troops can be used by the North's leadership to feed the nation's paranoia. What we really need here is a Korean equivalent to perestroika, the crumbling of the Berlin Wall.

And that can only come from Koreans

Finally on the side issue of the legality of the US invasion of Iraq I would like to cite this alternative view:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Print/0,3858,4624520,00.html

Brista out, thanks very much for a most interesting discussion :)
Reply


Messages In This Thread
Korea: What if we just left? - by Occhidiangela - 07-28-2003, 10:54 PM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Tiffany_Scott - 07-28-2003, 11:52 PM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Occhidiangela - 07-29-2003, 12:03 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Bun-Bun - 07-29-2003, 12:28 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Tiffany_Scott - 07-29-2003, 12:47 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Occhidiangela - 07-29-2003, 12:58 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Jester - 07-29-2003, 02:12 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Occhidiangela - 07-29-2003, 02:23 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Doc - 07-29-2003, 02:36 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Tal - 07-29-2003, 02:36 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Archon_Wing - 07-29-2003, 02:40 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Jester - 07-29-2003, 02:46 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Occhidiangela - 07-29-2003, 02:47 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Jester - 07-29-2003, 02:54 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Occhidiangela - 07-29-2003, 03:07 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Tiffany_Scott - 07-29-2003, 03:30 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by WarBlade - 07-29-2003, 03:52 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Tiffany_Scott - 07-29-2003, 04:05 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Doc - 07-29-2003, 04:14 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Griselda - 07-29-2003, 04:32 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Occhidiangela - 07-29-2003, 04:34 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Doc - 07-29-2003, 04:50 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Tiffany_Scott - 07-29-2003, 04:54 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Occhidiangela - 07-29-2003, 04:56 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Griselda - 07-29-2003, 04:58 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Griselda - 07-29-2003, 05:02 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Jester - 07-29-2003, 07:14 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Jester - 07-29-2003, 07:22 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by WarBlade - 07-29-2003, 08:56 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Feryar - 07-29-2003, 09:14 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by WarBlade - 07-29-2003, 09:34 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Feryar - 07-29-2003, 10:35 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by pakman - 07-29-2003, 12:42 PM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Doc - 07-29-2003, 02:13 PM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Drasca - 07-29-2003, 02:32 PM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Bun-Bun - 07-29-2003, 04:08 PM
Korea: What if we just left? - by yangman - 07-30-2003, 12:14 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Brista - 07-30-2003, 03:44 PM
Korea: What if we just left? - by goldfish - 08-01-2003, 12:21 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Occhidiangela - 08-03-2003, 10:54 PM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Occhidiangela - 08-03-2003, 11:07 PM
Korea: What if we just left? - by goldfish - 08-04-2003, 04:54 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Brista - 08-04-2003, 11:25 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Occhidiangela - 08-04-2003, 04:13 PM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Brista - 08-05-2003, 12:17 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by --Pete - 08-05-2003, 12:36 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Occhidiangela - 08-05-2003, 01:27 PM
Korea: What if we just left? - by SwissMercenary - 08-06-2003, 02:21 PM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Occhidiangela - 08-06-2003, 03:22 PM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Brista - 08-07-2003, 01:03 AM
Korea: What if we just left? - by pakman - 08-07-2003, 12:20 PM
Korea: What if we just left? - by Occhidiangela - 08-07-2003, 02:57 PM

Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 3 Guest(s)