08-05-2003, 12:36 AM
Hi,
However, what happens when a politician ruling a democratic country breaks the law?
They get some form of punishment is what happens.
Under Margaret Thatcher there were incidents where our security services performed illegal actions upon our own civilians, it seems with authority from the highest levels
If so, then both the acting individuals and the persons who gave then the orders are guilty and should be punished. Of course, suspicion and dislike are not proof.
The US invaded Iraq without UN sanction
Something I don't like, but means nothing in this discussion. Neither the USA nor anyone in the USA broke any laws of the USA. Which is what this discussion is all about -- the need for the leaders of a country to be bound by the laws of *that* country and not *be* the laws of the country. International "law" is a complex issue and just whom it applies and when are non-trivial questions.
And surely pretty much anything the espionage agencies do is illegal in the countries in which they operate
Yes. So what? If they get caught, they get treated as criminals (or spies, same thing). They are breaking the law of the country in which they operate, not the law of the country that they serve. Thus, the people who send them out are not breaking any laws that they are bound to obey.
So our leaders do not respect the rule of law entirely
Too broad a statement. No one respects the law entirely. We've all exceeded the speed limit, jaywalked, walked with traffic instead of facing it (or the opposite on a bike). What matters about leaders as leaders is that they obey the laws that apply to them as leaders. What matters about leaders as people is that they obey the laws as do all the other people and that when they fail to they are punished like anyone else -- no more, no less.
Your viewpoint seems to be driven by a moralistic attitude towards laws. Legal and illegal actions are not exactly the same as good and bad actions. And not all the laws of all the governments apply to all the people.
--Pete
However, what happens when a politician ruling a democratic country breaks the law?
They get some form of punishment is what happens.
Under Margaret Thatcher there were incidents where our security services performed illegal actions upon our own civilians, it seems with authority from the highest levels
If so, then both the acting individuals and the persons who gave then the orders are guilty and should be punished. Of course, suspicion and dislike are not proof.
The US invaded Iraq without UN sanction
Something I don't like, but means nothing in this discussion. Neither the USA nor anyone in the USA broke any laws of the USA. Which is what this discussion is all about -- the need for the leaders of a country to be bound by the laws of *that* country and not *be* the laws of the country. International "law" is a complex issue and just whom it applies and when are non-trivial questions.
And surely pretty much anything the espionage agencies do is illegal in the countries in which they operate
Yes. So what? If they get caught, they get treated as criminals (or spies, same thing). They are breaking the law of the country in which they operate, not the law of the country that they serve. Thus, the people who send them out are not breaking any laws that they are bound to obey.
So our leaders do not respect the rule of law entirely
Too broad a statement. No one respects the law entirely. We've all exceeded the speed limit, jaywalked, walked with traffic instead of facing it (or the opposite on a bike). What matters about leaders as leaders is that they obey the laws that apply to them as leaders. What matters about leaders as people is that they obey the laws as do all the other people and that when they fail to they are punished like anyone else -- no more, no less.
Your viewpoint seems to be driven by a moralistic attitude towards laws. Legal and illegal actions are not exactly the same as good and bad actions. And not all the laws of all the governments apply to all the people.
--Pete
How big was the aquarium in Noah's ark?