What is "Heard Immunity"?

[eppie]

-i will get vaccinated because we are almost forced (because otherwise I will have issues with travelling for holidays with my family and work). Not because I think I need it.

-I think most people really trivialize this enforcement of governments, not looking at constitutional rights and so.I think we have to be really careful to change our society in which governments can decide about vaccinating their people and giving those with vaccins more rights than those without.

So eppie, I found your first sentence above quite telling.  There are four "I"s in it, and one "my".  One of the most frustrating things about anti-vaxxers that educated people deal with is that concept of "me" and "I", in that such people feel they're being forced to do something that they don't need to, and will search high and low for any excuse to justify that line of thinking.

The societal benefits of vaccines are tremendous.  They allow for the eradication of diseases that kill people.  Getting a vaccine is as much about protecting yourself as it is protecting everyone you ever encounter as you go through your life.  It's an acknowledgement that you are a part of a society that functions better when people aren't randomly dying to preventable illnesses.  In short, it's about thinking beyond yourself, which is difficult for a segment of the American population to do thanks to our society's focus on individualism over all else.

To think that my grandmother-in-law might die because you felt getting vaccinated - something incredibly simple, safe, and free, was unnecessary - is quite frankly enraging.  It can be difficult for people like myself to not devolve into frothing rage over such self-centered idealism.

As for your second paragraph, I would hope that my government would marginalize those who show they simply do not care about their fellow man.  Becoming a social pariah with diminished rights is absolutely a deserved state for these people, just as placing a murderer in prison is.  If you prove that you care so little about the health of the society you live in, so be it.

Bolty,

I am no anti-vaxxer. I have had all my vaxxins, and also my kids got all of theirs. I even have taken a vaccin against mexican flu some years ago because at that time that was going around and contrary to Covid that was very dangerous for kids (and mine were to young to get vaccinated.

I am not happy about the words you use to describe me.
-I am vegeratian (not for myself but for a better planet for our children)
-I drive as liitle car as possible even though it is more difficult for myself but again I do this for the greater good. etc.

With regards to Covid; me taking a vaccin (when it is possible to do so) doesn't influence your grandmother at all. I am sure she is older then me and I am sure she has had to opportunity to get the vaccin. Also the vaccin doesn't take covid away....it will stay around most likely and just like the normal flue cause the death of many people every year. But again Covid is a disease that gives people the last push. In the Netherlands the average age of people dying from covid is still around our average life expectancy.

To give you an example: in te Netherlands (pop. 17 million)we have somewhere around 160 people under 40 dying from covid. Likely around 95% of them had heavy underlying issues....so undergoing chemo therapy, diabetes etc. Probably less then 5 people below the age of 40 died from how no underlying issues were known. Now that being very bad for those people or their family is still nothing execptional in terms of diseases and causes of death.

If we would make sure people start eating healthy and dpoing sports bringing down obesity number drastically this would save more lives than a world wide vaccination campaign. (plus saves a lot of lives from people dying of obesity related diseases. So instead of telling me I am only thinking about myself wouldn't you say that people who voite against sugar and meat tax are to blame more? The companies that flood our markets with unhealthy foods? And I can go  on for a while.




Covid is here to stay and will take lives every season just like normal flue. So if you want really to stop this you should enforce yearly flu and covid vaccination for the whole world population.
Now I am not a libertarian like e.g. kandrathe but even for me this goes way to far......and most constitutions agree with me.

Point remains....me getting vaccinated this year will not help a single person. You and everyone else stop eating meat.....now that will saves millions of lives yearly.

I am fine to disagree on this one but please don't suggest I do things because it is better for me personally. (I am not scared to get Covid but I am also not scared to get a vaccin.....it is self determination that I'm worried about).