I Don't Want to be Right

[kandrathe]

How ironic we could read the exact same post, have a similar opinion about the topic, yet still have such vastly opposed opinions on certain related topics.

While reading the OP, I was pondering just how closed-minded religious fanatics are who can't see the forest through the trees, despite all the "proof" I've throw out at them which unequivocally proves the Judeo-Christian bible is man-made using nothing but their own sacred texts (at its worst), and nothing more than political propaganda used to support various leaders ideologies using actual history books (at its best). I've long ago come to the conclusion that the real truth is most religious fanatics don't want to read the proof and when it becomes unavoidably undeniable, they simply brush it off as fringe ideology or refuse to educate themselves entirely regardless of their education.

Generally, I believe this falls into the realm of; "You can't teach a pig to sing, you waste your time and annoy the pig." -- Robert Heinlein's character Lazarus Long AKA Woodrow Wilson Smith, in "Time Enough for Love"

Through my very frustrating experiences, I've found there is almost no way to change someones belief structure, rather religion, global warming, or vaccinations, unless THEY BELIEVE THEY'RE THE ONE WHO CAME UP WITH THE IDEA THEMSELVES! That is the real crux of this argument Bolty made rather he realizes it or not, that for people to change their opinions, they can't be told what to believe, but have to believe they were the ones who came up with the idea themselves, an inception they not only have to realize for themselves, but believe they came to this conclusion through superior reasoning that others couldn't have possibly known because they just figured it out for themselves.

If you can dialog with them first, then if you can establish your credibility, then you maybe get the chance to present enough information that will change their minds. If their senses are closed off, then you waste your time. If it is family, then I've just learned to politely say, "I'm going to change the subject because I don't want to get into a {political / religious} debate with my family". My father used to tell me the axiom, "Change a man against his will, he's of the same opinion still" -- which is attributed to many including of course, Ben Franklin.

Mostly though, people learn the hard way. And... at some level, why bother? As in your bible fanatics; does it really matter if they believe in something you believe is untrue if nothing comes of it? Sometimes it matters, such as when they won't allow surgery to save the lives of their children. Mostly, we argue about things as irrelevant as the color of the sky. Or, as Mark Twain said, "I am quite sure now that often, very often, in matters concerning religion and politics a man’s reasoning powers are not above the monkey’s." Where it matters is; get vaccinated so you don't infect the population with a heinous plague, and let's not kill our children with spoiled milk, or lack of medical care. I'm fine with divergent opinions and beliefs, so long as no one gets harmed by them.

Sometimes I hate how ignorant people choose to be, however its easy to see how professors and world-renowned scientists can get swept up into such cults and ideologies so easily because after all, it is the human condition after all.

Sort of, but... scientists and academics have a reputation to protect within their chosen field. If they sully it, they aren't taken seriously and fail to get published in journals or get referenced in other work, or get grant money and end up out on their ear. This is also a problem since any radical new theory that happens to be true, and debunks a widely held wrong theory, has trouble rising above the protections of the majority opinion. In that case, you must present enough evidence, and have it independently corroborated in order to open the closed minded.