01-03-2014, 08:12 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-03-2014, 08:34 PM by FireIceTalon.)
@ Shoju. Well, this goes back to the Marxist view of the state - that it is essentially a committee for managing the common affairs of the ruling capitalist class. People like me and you are not part of that ruling class, so indeed, we are fucked (at least in the long run of things). It is true that the state will intervene when class conflict reaches certain boiling points, by making small concessions for the ruled class to protect the current social order. The invention of the 'welfare state' for instance was one such example. But even though the working class made gains, these weren't given to them to make their lives easier (and these gains themselves weren't just given to them, they had to be fought for), but for the specific purpose of protecting the long term interests of the ruling class. Such gains can be, and currently are, rolled back when private capital deems it necessary. This is why we are living in this new era of austerity.
But I think your concern of the hypocrisy of conservatives wanting minimal government for themselves and maximum for everyone else only looks at things in a social context. Economically, conservatives want as little government involvement as possible, because they believe the free market will solve all the worlds problems (even though it is actually responsible for them). Socially though, they want as much government as possible, because they are control freaks and want people they view different from themselves to be marginalized and oppressed, since it is in their economic interests for such things to be as they are. A ostensible exception are Libertarians, who want as little government as possible in both realms, but have the mistaken idea that this can be achieved under a capitalist mode of production - it cannot. Firstly, you cannot separate the economic from the social - they have a symbiotic relationship in a complex, ongoing historical process, and secondly in any class based society you NEED a heavy handed state to maintain that social relationship, or the whole thing will fall apart either naturally, or by revolution.
It's impossible for them to use communism for them to do this though, since we live under capitalism, and communism is a classless and stateless society that can only be realized once capitalism is completely gone. This is why the whole concept of 'mixed economies' is a fallacy, there is no such thing. Countries like Sweden, Norway and Denmark are still capitalist, as are China, Russia, North Korea, and Iran. Conservatives aren't using communism for anything, except as you mentioned as a scapegoat or redbaiting those they dont like or who happen to be a millimeter to the left of them politically. Of course on people like me, it doesn't work, since I am already a unapologetic communist
What they are doing is relatively business as usual from a Marxist perspective: using the state, as needed, to see their interests met and maintain their privileged position in society. But when it comes to us normal, working folk, they don't want the state to intervene, because we arent the ruling class. The whole political gridlock we are seeing in Washington is two sides of the ruling class fighting over how many table scraps the rest of us get, and the direction that capitalism should take. Nothing more, nothing less.
@Kandrathe, I didnt create the thread. Shoju did.
But I think your concern of the hypocrisy of conservatives wanting minimal government for themselves and maximum for everyone else only looks at things in a social context. Economically, conservatives want as little government involvement as possible, because they believe the free market will solve all the worlds problems (even though it is actually responsible for them). Socially though, they want as much government as possible, because they are control freaks and want people they view different from themselves to be marginalized and oppressed, since it is in their economic interests for such things to be as they are. A ostensible exception are Libertarians, who want as little government as possible in both realms, but have the mistaken idea that this can be achieved under a capitalist mode of production - it cannot. Firstly, you cannot separate the economic from the social - they have a symbiotic relationship in a complex, ongoing historical process, and secondly in any class based society you NEED a heavy handed state to maintain that social relationship, or the whole thing will fall apart either naturally, or by revolution.
It's impossible for them to use communism for them to do this though, since we live under capitalism, and communism is a classless and stateless society that can only be realized once capitalism is completely gone. This is why the whole concept of 'mixed economies' is a fallacy, there is no such thing. Countries like Sweden, Norway and Denmark are still capitalist, as are China, Russia, North Korea, and Iran. Conservatives aren't using communism for anything, except as you mentioned as a scapegoat or redbaiting those they dont like or who happen to be a millimeter to the left of them politically. Of course on people like me, it doesn't work, since I am already a unapologetic communist
What they are doing is relatively business as usual from a Marxist perspective: using the state, as needed, to see their interests met and maintain their privileged position in society. But when it comes to us normal, working folk, they don't want the state to intervene, because we arent the ruling class. The whole political gridlock we are seeing in Washington is two sides of the ruling class fighting over how many table scraps the rest of us get, and the direction that capitalism should take. Nothing more, nothing less.
@Kandrathe, I didnt create the thread. Shoju did.
https://www.youtube.com/user/FireIceTalon
"Your very ideas are but the outgrowth of conditions of your bourgeois production and bourgeois property, just as your jurisprudence is but the will of your class, made into law for all, a will whose essential character and direction are determined by the economic conditions of the existence of your class." - Marx (on capitalist laws and institutions)
"Your very ideas are but the outgrowth of conditions of your bourgeois production and bourgeois property, just as your jurisprudence is but the will of your class, made into law for all, a will whose essential character and direction are determined by the economic conditions of the existence of your class." - Marx (on capitalist laws and institutions)