DOMA and Prop 8. Both History.

[eppie]

So who are you to know it is really consensual?

This is the key phrase.

Who am I to know if it is? I don't have to. We don't start from totalitarianism, and work backwards, slowly granting people the freedom to do ordinary things. The assumption is that everyone should be, by default, free to do as they please. The burden is on those who would ban a thing. You have to show that it causes serious harm to others, and also that a ban is the least harmful solution.

The marriage between cousins that is happening a lot between Morrocon immigrants in western-Europe is something we are trying to ban or to discourage. I am sure if you ask them, 99% of the women who get married like that will TELL you it is consensual but everybody knows the pressure and threats of family members play an important role.

I am not a paternalist. People will make bad choices for a thousand different reasons - and choices that you see as bad, but they see as good, or better than the alternatives. I do not feel it is my right to stop them, whereas it is their right to live a free life. I do not see the need to tell people that their education was not "reasonable," or that they have "serious cultural difficulties." I don't feel the need to tell Moroccan immigrants that they can't marry their cousins. And I certainly don't feel the need to pass laws to that effect. If a marriage is coerced, or fraudulent, then there is already legal redress for that - and I'm all for making sure Moroccan people have full and safe access to the law. But I don't assume people are being coerced, and I certainly don't ban everything on the off chance they might be.

-Jester

Jester, you keep just using liberal theory as arguments although I have often stated that I agree with that theory but that the real world is very different, much more complicated.

We know that there is a high percentage of arranged marriages under Morrocon people where the family goes to Morroco in the holiday period and they come back with a wife for the son.

It is true, it still is allowed for cousins to get married. This has never bee changed because there were no real issues in the past. And because (yes you get it) we also have very liberal opinions we didnot want to ban it.

Now we see that 1 on 4 Morrocon and Turkish immigrants marries a cousin. Which has several issues. First, the percentage of handicapped babies among these groups is much higher than avarage, and second most of these marriages are arranged.

So yes you have the issue of giving people the freedom until it is PROVEN that something is off or to try and protect women, and children.

And for me it is much wiser to make a sensible decision instead of keep repeating the liberal mantra. To understand that society isn't equal and that in parts women are seen as 2nd class citizens.