DOMA and Prop 8. Both History.

[shoju]

Actually, (And I can't believe that I'm even doing this) The Biebs is a product of hard work, and discovery, but not because they wanted a star.

right

He was HUGE on Youtube before he got famous.

Which is proving a point?

Yes. It proves the point that he wasn't a product of the Music Industry wanting another star. He wasn't pre-fabricated. He wasn't "Mass Produced". He wasn't American Idol, or the Voice, or America's Got Talent, or a Boy Band. He was a musician.

He was actually discovered on Youtube, by the hardest working man in Show Biz, Usher Raymond.

Don't know who he is, don't care.

I find it hard to believe that you are under the age of.......... 50, and have no idea who Usher is. I don't listen to R&B, and I know who he is.

(who, despite being on the last season of the voice, I have a huge amount of respect for.)

The what?

The Voice. Imagine American Idol, but without the trappings of being discovered based on the overall look. It's purely based on your voice. The judges can't see you when they hear the audition.

Now, I can't stand his music, and I do think that he is a pretty big pain in the ass, but lets not perpetuate false information.

I don't know his music, or that he is a pain in the ass

I'm beginning to wonder who you are, what planet you live on, or if you really do get on the internet.

He does have talent, he isn't just some pretty face with a mediocre voice. he is a musician.

If anyone with a voice and some dance moves, and the ability to play cords would be famous, where would that bring us.

But it's more than dance moves, a voice, and the ability to play chords. At the age of 15, he was writing, self recording, and publishing, quality pop songs. Yes, they are pop songs, but there is an artform to carefully crafting a pop song.

He has talent. Those three words burn my flesh as I type them. But it doesn't make them any less true.

And while I may not like his music, or his personality, I can respect his musicianship.

Yeah, we probably have different scales which we use to decide if someone gets our respect.

Probably. I'm a musician. A Classically trained Musician capable of playing Violin, Viola, Cello, Upright Bass, Percussion, Guitar, Electric Bass, Mandolin, and I'm sure a few other instruments with strings if given enough time to sit with it.

I don't respect him as a person. I'd never be friends with him. But as a Musician, I can look at his ability, and respect that. In today's day and age, people get so drawn into the rest of the shit, that they forgot that you respect an artform, or a craft.

Now, that doesn't make what you said about the Industry incorrect "on a whole" Just in this specific case. They didn't decide to "make a star" out of the biebs. They decided to take a youtube star, and make him a global star. In essence, they just sped up the process. He was well on his way to being a huge star anyway.

O yeah, he obviously is the next Bob Dylan.

Probably more so than you think. Bob Dylan was hated by the parents of the generation that loved him. He wrote terrible music, He was hard to understand when he sang, he sang about things that didn't make any sense, he wasn't "that good" at playing guitar.

Those were all complaints about Dylan from the "older generation".

Tell me again how that description is different than how people feel about the biebs?

Oh... You meant Lyrical Content? Tell me once again about Wagon Wheel, a Bob Dylan song that has been remade twice in the past 5 years is so deep and meaningful.

I have a large amount of loathing for the RIAA, and those companies that comprise it. I hate what they do to artists, and I abhor what they do to young people by sucking them up, shoving them in front of the world, and grinding them into a pulp.

Well my problem is more with all the poor teenagers that get pressured in to spending their money on this crap.....well, one positive thing; you just told me he used to be on youtube and that is free. (yeaaaa 1 point for Bieber)

The marketing today is no different than it was before. Youtube is replacing the old way of playing shows, and selling your soul to open up for a band and play one song.

Marketing is a powerful tool. It's always been a powerful tool. Kids were bombarded by it "back in the day" as much as they are today, The avenue with whichh is happens is just different.

My band came awfully close to getting a deal, and while I'm not rich, or famous now, I thank my magical being that sometimes grants me things that I would consider miracles that I didn't get signed. I've learned a lot since then, and one thing I learned is that I would have been dead inside 24 months.

Anyway, after reading your post; I don't know who is to blame, Bieber or his record company but I still don't get feeling of respect for them sending crap into the ether. And yes I have never heard one of his songs. and yes I am prejudiced against musicians

Pop Songs have always served a purpose in our culture. It isn't "amazing" it isn't deeply meaningful. That isn't the purpose. Some times, music is just meant to have a catchy beat, and repeatable lyrics to make us feel better. This isn't a product of the 1900's. This is what music has been throughout history. Look back. Even in the "way back times" you had people like Mozart, and Beethoven, but you also had street minstrels, who played songs that people could catch on to the words of, and just sing along and feel better.

That is the type of music that Pop Music is today. You shouldn't blame them for making music. Blame the record companies for selling to the lowest common denominator, and dumbing down his music. I have kids. I've heard both of his albums. The first album, is musically superior to the second album. Because the first album was completely written by Biebs, and Usher. The second album was record company influenced.

I am a little sad to hear that you are prejudiced against musicians. Music is the universal language. It communicates with parts of the brain in ways that nothing else can. Just because his music isn't "high brow", doesn't mean that it doesn't serve a purpose.

And now, I want to vomit, because I've defending him twice.

I have my own reasons for not liking his music. but they are more based on the musician side of it. Not something that you can just whip out and have an in depth conversation about.