05-23-2013, 08:30 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-24-2013, 06:30 AM by FireIceTalon.)
Sigh. Its only "rhetoric crap" when a Marxist says it, riiiiiiiiiight?? It's only me hurling insults and putting people on the defensive (despite the fact I constantly have to defend Marxism from yours and other peoples reactionary slanders, lies, and vulgarizations of it). Meh, I'm done here as well. This ain't gonna go anywhere. Have at it.
One last thing I will say for Kandrathe, is that DM is indeed central to Marxism, even if he never explicitly stated so. In fact, he never even coined the term itself, but he and Engels used it so extensively in their thought process that it is kind of self-evident and implied for us that it was very much a central component to their ideas and analysis. As a result, anti-dialectics is pretty much un-Marxist by default (if not anti-Marxist). That might sound dogmatic but it really isnt (the "Marxist" who owns that website you posted even called DM a dogmatic philosophy, and I have no idea how he came to this conclusion, since the very essence of DM is in fact anti-dogmatic, i.e. the material processes of the world are in constant conflict and thus ever changing, rather than linear and unchanging which would be a dogmatic perspective...I almost want to contact that guy and tell him to take his shit website down - its complete revisionism like this that has vulgarized and distorted Marxism so terribly). DM just happens to be one of the key tenets that distinguishes Marxism from other strands of leftist thought, be it anarchism, the million and one types of non-Marxist socialism like Blanquism, etc (it can also lead to systems outside the realm of leftism altogether). In short, taking DM out of Marxism would be akin to taking the concept of adaptation out of the process of evolution, when it would cease to be evolution at that point. Anyways, I have neither the interest nor the heart to continue this discussion in general for the time being. Take care, stay safe everyone.
My red, dialectical best
--FIT
*EDIT*
Kandrathe, I took it upon myself to research the person who made that website you linked me to in an attempt to disprove DM. Well, it turns out she was a fairly known poster on RevLeft, and regarded by most there as little better than a troll. Pretty much all her criticisms of DM were debunked by various people on RevLeft, including this discussion here, and in this well conceived post here.. And I'm sure there are probably plenty of other posts in old threads that discredit her effectively as well, that I haven't found yet. Not to mention, her whole critique fails for the simple fact that Marxist thought is formed around DM, especially in Capital Vol.1. Essentially the only way her critique could have ANY merit at all (and even then, it really still wouldn't have much) is if she finally admitted she wasn't a Marxist. At least then, she'd only be a fool, instead of a fool with her foot in her mouth.
One last thing I will say for Kandrathe, is that DM is indeed central to Marxism, even if he never explicitly stated so. In fact, he never even coined the term itself, but he and Engels used it so extensively in their thought process that it is kind of self-evident and implied for us that it was very much a central component to their ideas and analysis. As a result, anti-dialectics is pretty much un-Marxist by default (if not anti-Marxist). That might sound dogmatic but it really isnt (the "Marxist" who owns that website you posted even called DM a dogmatic philosophy, and I have no idea how he came to this conclusion, since the very essence of DM is in fact anti-dogmatic, i.e. the material processes of the world are in constant conflict and thus ever changing, rather than linear and unchanging which would be a dogmatic perspective...I almost want to contact that guy and tell him to take his shit website down - its complete revisionism like this that has vulgarized and distorted Marxism so terribly). DM just happens to be one of the key tenets that distinguishes Marxism from other strands of leftist thought, be it anarchism, the million and one types of non-Marxist socialism like Blanquism, etc (it can also lead to systems outside the realm of leftism altogether). In short, taking DM out of Marxism would be akin to taking the concept of adaptation out of the process of evolution, when it would cease to be evolution at that point. Anyways, I have neither the interest nor the heart to continue this discussion in general for the time being. Take care, stay safe everyone.
My red, dialectical best
--FIT*EDIT*
Kandrathe, I took it upon myself to research the person who made that website you linked me to in an attempt to disprove DM. Well, it turns out she was a fairly known poster on RevLeft, and regarded by most there as little better than a troll. Pretty much all her criticisms of DM were debunked by various people on RevLeft, including this discussion here, and in this well conceived post here.. And I'm sure there are probably plenty of other posts in old threads that discredit her effectively as well, that I haven't found yet. Not to mention, her whole critique fails for the simple fact that Marxist thought is formed around DM, especially in Capital Vol.1. Essentially the only way her critique could have ANY merit at all (and even then, it really still wouldn't have much) is if she finally admitted she wasn't a Marxist. At least then, she'd only be a fool, instead of a fool with her foot in her mouth.
https://www.youtube.com/user/FireIceTalon
"Your very ideas are but the outgrowth of conditions of your bourgeois production and bourgeois property, just as your jurisprudence is but the will of your class, made into law for all, a will whose essential character and direction are determined by the economic conditions of the existence of your class." - Marx (addressing the bourgeois)
"Your very ideas are but the outgrowth of conditions of your bourgeois production and bourgeois property, just as your jurisprudence is but the will of your class, made into law for all, a will whose essential character and direction are determined by the economic conditions of the existence of your class." - Marx (addressing the bourgeois)