(10-18-2012, 01:11 AM)Kevin Wrote: Don't forget to factor that religiously unaffiliated individuals are often marginalized by religious people. That may be stating things too strongly, but there are plenty of religious people out there who will not date an unaffiliated person (make a fake profile on a dating site and you can see this affect fairly clearly by how members who list a religion respond to those who list agnostic, atheist, or pref not to say). This affect is likely not really any different than what any other minority feels, and the higher rates in the study may all be accounted for by that, I don't have the time to look that up.
It can be very difficult for a non religious person at times, they can feel like they are being looked down upon and persecuted. The need of many religious people to try and "save" them can also put other pressures on them. Turning on the radio or TV and hearing the admittedly blowhards that dominate talk radio these days still using phrases like "ignorant godless heathens" a phrase I heard twice, on different stations, from different people (Glen Beck and I don't know who the other guy was) when I was just channel surfing on a long trip.
Some of those negative traits listed in the study could very easily go "poof" if non religious folks weren't a minority that the majority often felt needed to be saved.
Correct, I know the situation in Italy. Public social pressure is just too high to clearly state you don't believe in God. And the same as also happens in the US.....stating you are an atheist means you will not have career......anywhere (well maybe entertainment or football).
My mother in law is very catholic....yes she visits church more than 5 times per week. But when we talk about this with her, she agrees with most things that we say.....the only thing she doesn't agree on is the whole social thing. She will go to church, because that is what you do. All priests are saints. My child should be baptised etc.
The group of people who really take everything written in the bible literally is small but loud.
(10-18-2012, 05:25 AM)kandrathe Wrote:(10-18-2012, 01:11 AM)Kevin Wrote: Don't forget to factor that religiously unaffiliated individuals are often marginalized...Yeah, I thought about that too and came to the same conclusion as you, that they probably suffer a bit, but not as much as a minority that is visibly a minority.
I'm sure there are bad "Christians" who try to make people feel guilty, however, a major tenet of Christianity is Matt 7:3-5 "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye." Meaning that they should mind their own business, and deal with their own issues before they criticize others or offer to "save" them. And, this is to FIT's point too; most every Christian I know struggles to be honest with themselves and others regarding their own "sinful" natures. There are far too many hypocrites who talk down on others. There always have been, and always will be. It's not a religion thing, it's a denial thing. And it's just a human frailty to ignore ones own faults while going out of our way to point out the faults of others. In the Christian perspective, everyone has fallen, remain sinful, and are in need of redemption -- not just the atheists.
Kandrathe, yes on the personal level you probably are right. But as a group christians pressure othersin a bad way.....not in the Netherlands but for sure in the US or the southern european countries.
But even in Holland no politician would start the topic himself and saying he is an atheist.....they are afraid people will get offended (and not vote for them anymore).
(10-18-2012, 03:16 AM)DeeBye Wrote: It's also really easy to give the single word reply "yes" when asked if you believe in a "higher power", but that doesn't necessarily make you a religious person. If 85% of americans are religious, then churches/synagogues/mosques should be overflowing every worship day.
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Good point, in many countries you are automatically counted as being part of the state religion. I know a person in Italy who officially retracted himself from the catholic church because he didn't want to be in the statistics as catholic.....but of course very few people will do that.....at least not the 90% of the population that are sheep.
Even in Sweden.....if you are born in Sweden from Swedish parents, you will automatically pay a church tax, unless you officiely state you don't want that anymore.