09-18-2012, 08:44 PM
(This post was last modified: 09-19-2012, 02:07 AM by FireIceTalon.)
(09-18-2012, 06:01 PM)Taem Wrote: Did you even read what I wrote, or read the links? I'm saying that ALL RELIGION'S have their history based on myth and lies and I CAN PROVE IT! Now you want to say you believe in a "higher" power not associated with a written set of rules in a bible, then that's grand. That is called a philosophy, not a religion. To say you believe in a higher power, that you are spiritual does not make you religious! Get it? Alcoholics Anonymous has a non-denominational philosophy for teaching about spirituality; so does the philosophy version (not the religious version) of Buddhism. I know of groups who meet regularly and are open to all forms of prayer and consider themselves to be nondenominational, but spiritual. I'll say it again because it's worth saying: Religions are cults by their very nature as defined by what the dictionary says a cult is. They are not a belief systems more than sets of rules cultures used for control. The philosophy behind the religion can still be gleamed without the religion.
Point taken, good sir. I browsed through a couple of your links but they are quite long for me to really read in depth and comment on at this time, but I will look them over in more depth later.
I see what you are saying. You feel that society should be guided by ethics, philosophy, reason, and science rather than the literal texts of any given religion - and I would agree to an extent. But even philosophy, reason, and ethics can be grounded in Idealism (just like religion). What is ethical for the ruling class is not ethical for the Proletarian. What is reasonable for the ruling class is not reasonable for the Proletarian, not materially anyway, no matter how much they may feel the status-quo is the 'natural order' of things. To put it simply I am all for ethics, reason, philosophy, and science as being the foundations for running society - so long as they are materially grounded in the class interests of Proletarian Internationalism.
You must also consider that the philosophical content of each religion also greatly differs from one another if I am understanding you right, and these are a big part of their corresponding cultures (some more then others ofc). If one person believes in the philosophical principles of Christianity, and another in the philosophies of Buddhism, are not both individuals entitled to those personal beliefs (as long as they don't mix them with politics and science - social or hard sciences) regardless of what type of society we live in? This was the point I was trying to make about "religion" being compatible within Communist society.
I'm not sure all religion is based on "lies" per se (though it certainly can and has been manipulated to be so through groups that have ideological agendas, but science too has also been manipulated to manifest ideological agenda to create forms of pseudo science - Hitler and his eugenic Nazi "scientists" to justify their Social Darwinist philosophy being a perfect example), but it IS certainly based on faith and superstition, at best. My main problem with religion is that it relies entirely on these things and cannot be scientifically tested to find empirical conclusions. Science can, and has been wrong - many times, but that is the beauty of science - it is self correcting. Even when science is wrong, it makes progress because we are a step closer to finding an empirical answer. We re-examine the material evidence/facts, formulate another hypothesis, run another test and then go from there. If we are right, we have a legitimate theory, if not, we start over again and repeat. With religion, it is impossible, everything is just a guess and it wants to oversimplify the history of humanity and our world in general by being correct right off the bat without considering any of the material evidence - It is the work of God, and thats it. Completely ridiculous. The burden of proof isn't on science or Atheists to prove that a deity doesn't exist or that the earth is x amount of years old, the burden of proof is on the person of faith to prove that a deity DOES exist and that the earth is the age they claim it to be, or that it was created by deity regardless of age.
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"Your very ideas are but the outgrowth of conditions of your bourgeois production and bourgeois property, just as your jurisprudence is but the will of your class, made into law for all, a will whose essential character and direction are determined by the economic conditions of the existence of your class." - Marx (addressing the bourgeois)
"Your very ideas are but the outgrowth of conditions of your bourgeois production and bourgeois property, just as your jurisprudence is but the will of your class, made into law for all, a will whose essential character and direction are determined by the economic conditions of the existence of your class." - Marx (addressing the bourgeois)