09-13-2012, 03:43 AM
"meaningless anecdotes" I did state from the beginning it was a rant. I was not trying to stereotype in the way you think I was, but I do regret comparing black role-models to rappers - that was misleading hyperbole of the worst type, and I do want to apologize for that statement to everyone. I was trying to rationalize something I know nothing about, and in fact came across as ignorant. Me <-- dumbass right there. Oh well. Damage is done now that you quoted me and I can't edit it. My bad.
Anyways, I suppose I should clarify something for you:
Interesting, because I am half-Hispanic in case you didn't know. Here is the exact ancestry running through my veins:
Irish = 18.75%
Indian = 18.75% (this is Toltec Indian, btw)
Spaniard = 18.75%
German = 18.75%
Dutch = 12.5%
Russian = 6.25%
Italian = 6.25%
Before I comment, I'd like to offer some sobering, non-racist, non-anecdotal facts:
A link I think you'll like FIT, correlating poverty to violent crime, but blaming Capitalism as the root cause: LINK
35% of Hispanics and Blacks are at or below the poverty line, as opposed to 14% Whites and 23% Other in the US: LINK
Now, it doesn't take a genius to do the math on these numbers; the majority of violent crimes will be committed by Hispanics or African Americans by the very nature of the system in it's current state. Of course this does not mean all these types of individuals are like this, hell no!
Now to my anecdotal-filled commentary: of course anyone can be a criminal. We all speed, don't we? Last time I checked, it was only an infraction, yet still it's against the law. I hope white-collar criminals get caught and serve time too. I suppose my fear is more tangible, the things immediately affecting my family. Since you don't seem to believe appearance plays any role in criminal activity, let me tell you about my neighbor who has the cops come regularly about twice a month and has drug-abusing "looking" people entering her home at all times of the day; let me define "drug-using" looking person to give a clearer pictures of to what I'm referring:
Dark circles under the eyes, shifty red eyes, fidgety, pale complexion, long nails, greasy hair and skin, open sores on the skin, missing unkempt teeth, old clothing, chain-smoking. If you've ever been around habitual drug-abusers, then you'd be able to quickly and easily identify them! I'd say the biggest dead give-away is when they drive up around 1AM, stay up all night long fixing their car down in the community carport, then the following day clean the house all day long and rinse and repeat for about three or four days all without a second of sleep - yeah, pretty goddamn obvious, and dangerous. Anecdotal, yes. Proof that all drug-users look like this? Not at all, but the telltale sign of a dangerous drug abuser are apparent from experience having been around those types of people before. I assume police might inherit the same sense when they see someone acting suspicious, a sense that saves their lives!
So lets say, as a police officer, you see someone who looks like this described drug-user in a relatively nice neighborhood and you flash them with your light - not to racially profile them, but out of concern for the law-abiding citizens around them. They run! What do you do? You handcuff them of course and ask questions later. This same exact situation can be said as true when you see someone dressed as a gang-banger, because despite what you say, dressing a certain way merits a response: if not, company representatives would not bother dressing in business suits before going to work, but shorts and a tee-shirt. Just because someone is Black, Hispanic, or White does not confer profiling. What I'm talking about is an appearance, an attitude, and actions that all state loud and clear: I'm trouble!
I don't believe it's just the look, but the whole demeanor that makes cops suspicious of a person. But based on numbers alone, it's clear Hispanics and Blacks feel racially profiled when the majority of crimes are happening in their neighborhoods.
Maybe. Like I said before, its possible I live in an isolated section of America that isn't subjected to that type of crap. We (our company) had an electrician move out to Arizona around February of last year and return a few months ago. I saw him just yesterday actually and he told me (he's White btw) that he couldn't stand the part of Phoenix he moved to, that every other block (his words, not mine) had a car with a confederate flag on it and people in every store he went in couldn't stop talking poorly about Hispanic people. He said it made him so sick to his stomach, that he couldn't raise his family there despite how cheap it is to live there compared to California, so he moved back. If that is indeed the type of attitude prevalent in the majority of America, then that makes me very, very sad; actually utterly depressed. I saw that mentality against the Indians in New Mexico when we went to visit my mother's birth town in Gallop. I can't believe that mentality still exists in the US. But I can't believe, I won't believe, that the majority of the US is like that!
Anyways, I suppose I should clarify something for you:
(09-13-2012, 02:04 AM)FireIceTalon Wrote: Really, this post stinks of white patriarchism, and is a good example of why I hate America and what it stands for.
Interesting, because I am half-Hispanic in case you didn't know. Here is the exact ancestry running through my veins:
Irish = 18.75%
Indian = 18.75% (this is Toltec Indian, btw)
Spaniard = 18.75%
German = 18.75%
Dutch = 12.5%
Russian = 6.25%
Italian = 6.25%
(09-13-2012, 02:04 AM)FireIceTalon Wrote: I didn't know criminals dress a certain way,
Before I comment, I'd like to offer some sobering, non-racist, non-anecdotal facts:
A link I think you'll like FIT, correlating poverty to violent crime, but blaming Capitalism as the root cause: LINK
35% of Hispanics and Blacks are at or below the poverty line, as opposed to 14% Whites and 23% Other in the US: LINK
Now, it doesn't take a genius to do the math on these numbers; the majority of violent crimes will be committed by Hispanics or African Americans by the very nature of the system in it's current state. Of course this does not mean all these types of individuals are like this, hell no!
Now to my anecdotal-filled commentary: of course anyone can be a criminal. We all speed, don't we? Last time I checked, it was only an infraction, yet still it's against the law. I hope white-collar criminals get caught and serve time too. I suppose my fear is more tangible, the things immediately affecting my family. Since you don't seem to believe appearance plays any role in criminal activity, let me tell you about my neighbor who has the cops come regularly about twice a month and has drug-abusing "looking" people entering her home at all times of the day; let me define "drug-using" looking person to give a clearer pictures of to what I'm referring:
Dark circles under the eyes, shifty red eyes, fidgety, pale complexion, long nails, greasy hair and skin, open sores on the skin, missing unkempt teeth, old clothing, chain-smoking. If you've ever been around habitual drug-abusers, then you'd be able to quickly and easily identify them! I'd say the biggest dead give-away is when they drive up around 1AM, stay up all night long fixing their car down in the community carport, then the following day clean the house all day long and rinse and repeat for about three or four days all without a second of sleep - yeah, pretty goddamn obvious, and dangerous. Anecdotal, yes. Proof that all drug-users look like this? Not at all, but the telltale sign of a dangerous drug abuser are apparent from experience having been around those types of people before. I assume police might inherit the same sense when they see someone acting suspicious, a sense that saves their lives!
So lets say, as a police officer, you see someone who looks like this described drug-user in a relatively nice neighborhood and you flash them with your light - not to racially profile them, but out of concern for the law-abiding citizens around them. They run! What do you do? You handcuff them of course and ask questions later. This same exact situation can be said as true when you see someone dressed as a gang-banger, because despite what you say, dressing a certain way merits a response: if not, company representatives would not bother dressing in business suits before going to work, but shorts and a tee-shirt. Just because someone is Black, Hispanic, or White does not confer profiling. What I'm talking about is an appearance, an attitude, and actions that all state loud and clear: I'm trouble!
(09-13-2012, 02:04 AM)FireIceTalon Wrote: just because someone is wearing baggy clothes isn't a justification for harassment by any authority.
I don't believe it's just the look, but the whole demeanor that makes cops suspicious of a person. But based on numbers alone, it's clear Hispanics and Blacks feel racially profiled when the majority of crimes are happening in their neighborhoods.
(09-13-2012, 02:04 AM)FireIceTalon Wrote: I would say a more likely reason blacks get in more trouble isnt because of how they dress, but because Amerikkka is still the same racist, patriarchal, xenophobic, sexist, ethnocentric "pile of shit on the hill" nation it was in 1776. It is YOU, who is in fact wrong, and history is proof of that.
Maybe. Like I said before, its possible I live in an isolated section of America that isn't subjected to that type of crap. We (our company) had an electrician move out to Arizona around February of last year and return a few months ago. I saw him just yesterday actually and he told me (he's White btw) that he couldn't stand the part of Phoenix he moved to, that every other block (his words, not mine) had a car with a confederate flag on it and people in every store he went in couldn't stop talking poorly about Hispanic people. He said it made him so sick to his stomach, that he couldn't raise his family there despite how cheap it is to live there compared to California, so he moved back. If that is indeed the type of attitude prevalent in the majority of America, then that makes me very, very sad; actually utterly depressed. I saw that mentality against the Indians in New Mexico when we went to visit my mother's birth town in Gallop. I can't believe that mentality still exists in the US. But I can't believe, I won't believe, that the majority of the US is like that!
"The true value of a human being is determined primarily by the measure and the sense in which he has attained liberation from the self." -Albert Einsetin