07-16-2003, 10:33 AM
You're right on one thing: they need more efficient, intelligent AI. However, ANYONE who thinks Damage, AR, DR, etc. (excluding HP) should be scaled per player is an idiot. Pure and simple.
Higher AR per player means you'll ultimately reach a point where your defense is useless. This would totally discourage party playing, except for the hardcore elite players that beat the game naked (you know who I'm talking about ;)). Higher damage means EVERY shot is a one-hit-kill, thus slowing the pace of the game to a crawl and, once again, killing party play. And boosting DR per player? Well that just screws physical players (ESPECIALLY melee players) all the more, while giving anyone with magical offense, particularly ranged offense, even more free reign than ever. You widen the gap, and kill party play entirely, so that ALL you'll see is Sorceresses, Druids, and the occasional Necromancer. Nothing else. Monster HP is the ONLY stat you can safely increase per player without killing the game entirely, and it is also the only (albeit crude) defense against, as you pointed out Occhi, the overlapping skills of multiple players. Higher HPs means they can tank with the Barbs a bit longer, thus lasting longer against the Sorcy's onslaught, in the (often vain) hope of breaking through and doing some serious damage (ala killing a player).
What SHOULD be done is, in addition to HP scaling, monster QUANTITY scaling. Each new player adds a small amount of monsters to the spawning pool. Of course, this would crush low-end computers (amazing, isn't it? :P), and since monsters (and levels) are generated at the game's creation, there's no way to actually do this without re-coding the whole game. But the point is sound. Increasing monster numbers means that a GROUP can be overwhelmed just as easily as a single person, AND it effectively restricts solo players-8 playing. Now, if a Sorcy, for example, had enough punch to kill a single monster (in players 1), her AoE spells can take out whole mobs just as effectively. And that, my friend, is where scaling HP comes in.
But there has always been one problem: Blizzard effectively balances Multiplayer with a Singleplayer mindset. Monsters are balanced to die in one or two hits IN MULTIPLAYER, when they should be dying in 3 - 4 hits in SINGLEPLAYER. In Diablo, monsters did NOT scale in HPs with more players. They did, however, require multiple hits from even the strongest attacks in order to take down. And, due to the way the game performed (via tiles, game pace, lack of AoE, etc.), you could not effectively combine your attacks 100% of the time. In other words, you and your party were probably only killing the same monster(s) 50% of the time. The rest was one on one (or on multiple). If Blizzard were to simply balance the game in single player with a SINGE PLAYER mindset, or in multiplayer with a MULTIPLAYER mindset, they would be SO much better off, in terms of gameplay and balance. It would not be the salvation of this broken game, but it would be a huge step in the right direction. Of course, the masses, which Blizzard oh so delicately caters to, would all cry havoc, but who cares? ;) Let 'em take another couple seconds to kill that oncoming monster. A few extra hits, while siginificant, won't be noticed before long, and it will add that much more value to all their "hard-earned" candy - I mean items. :P In all seriousness, though, the game is NOT balanced for SP OR MP. The reason is because the game is attempted to be balanced for MP, only applying an SP mindset. When you start off with SP monsters taking 3 - 4 hits from even the most damaging attacks, it will take even more shots to kill them off when you start adding in players. But, this is of course reversed slightly when you factor in those extra players, as they can attack the same enemies as you at the same time - something that was difficult to do in Diablo (due to one factor: Friendly Fire, a non-existant element in Diablo II). It won't completely reverse it, obviously, but it would keep growing parties (and their offense) in check, AND virtually eliminate solo players-8 playing! If you want to solo in a high player-count game, you're gonna be working MUCH slower than if you had joined a party to stick with. It's the near-perfect solution that will never be recognized, short of in mods. ;)
I just had to speak up on those issues. You have the right idea Tommi. Just don't EVER expect it to get implemented by Blizzard. ;)
Higher AR per player means you'll ultimately reach a point where your defense is useless. This would totally discourage party playing, except for the hardcore elite players that beat the game naked (you know who I'm talking about ;)). Higher damage means EVERY shot is a one-hit-kill, thus slowing the pace of the game to a crawl and, once again, killing party play. And boosting DR per player? Well that just screws physical players (ESPECIALLY melee players) all the more, while giving anyone with magical offense, particularly ranged offense, even more free reign than ever. You widen the gap, and kill party play entirely, so that ALL you'll see is Sorceresses, Druids, and the occasional Necromancer. Nothing else. Monster HP is the ONLY stat you can safely increase per player without killing the game entirely, and it is also the only (albeit crude) defense against, as you pointed out Occhi, the overlapping skills of multiple players. Higher HPs means they can tank with the Barbs a bit longer, thus lasting longer against the Sorcy's onslaught, in the (often vain) hope of breaking through and doing some serious damage (ala killing a player).
What SHOULD be done is, in addition to HP scaling, monster QUANTITY scaling. Each new player adds a small amount of monsters to the spawning pool. Of course, this would crush low-end computers (amazing, isn't it? :P), and since monsters (and levels) are generated at the game's creation, there's no way to actually do this without re-coding the whole game. But the point is sound. Increasing monster numbers means that a GROUP can be overwhelmed just as easily as a single person, AND it effectively restricts solo players-8 playing. Now, if a Sorcy, for example, had enough punch to kill a single monster (in players 1), her AoE spells can take out whole mobs just as effectively. And that, my friend, is where scaling HP comes in.
But there has always been one problem: Blizzard effectively balances Multiplayer with a Singleplayer mindset. Monsters are balanced to die in one or two hits IN MULTIPLAYER, when they should be dying in 3 - 4 hits in SINGLEPLAYER. In Diablo, monsters did NOT scale in HPs with more players. They did, however, require multiple hits from even the strongest attacks in order to take down. And, due to the way the game performed (via tiles, game pace, lack of AoE, etc.), you could not effectively combine your attacks 100% of the time. In other words, you and your party were probably only killing the same monster(s) 50% of the time. The rest was one on one (or on multiple). If Blizzard were to simply balance the game in single player with a SINGE PLAYER mindset, or in multiplayer with a MULTIPLAYER mindset, they would be SO much better off, in terms of gameplay and balance. It would not be the salvation of this broken game, but it would be a huge step in the right direction. Of course, the masses, which Blizzard oh so delicately caters to, would all cry havoc, but who cares? ;) Let 'em take another couple seconds to kill that oncoming monster. A few extra hits, while siginificant, won't be noticed before long, and it will add that much more value to all their "hard-earned" candy - I mean items. :P In all seriousness, though, the game is NOT balanced for SP OR MP. The reason is because the game is attempted to be balanced for MP, only applying an SP mindset. When you start off with SP monsters taking 3 - 4 hits from even the most damaging attacks, it will take even more shots to kill them off when you start adding in players. But, this is of course reversed slightly when you factor in those extra players, as they can attack the same enemies as you at the same time - something that was difficult to do in Diablo (due to one factor: Friendly Fire, a non-existant element in Diablo II). It won't completely reverse it, obviously, but it would keep growing parties (and their offense) in check, AND virtually eliminate solo players-8 playing! If you want to solo in a high player-count game, you're gonna be working MUCH slower than if you had joined a party to stick with. It's the near-perfect solution that will never be recognized, short of in mods. ;)
I just had to speak up on those issues. You have the right idea Tommi. Just don't EVER expect it to get implemented by Blizzard. ;)
Roland *The Gunslinger*