Unemployment, and so on
#71
I think you are viewing "false consciousness" from a elitist perspective, which implies that the proletariat is viewed as being dumb and they need someone who knows better to guide them. I am an elitist myself (but not in the sense that I support it, but in the sense that is how I think our society is currently ran). But false consciousness itself is derived from other Marxist concepts such as "alienation of labor" and non-Marxist concepts as well, like idealism (religion being the primary example). They are tools used by the capitalist class to not only exploit the proletariat, but also to misrepresent the nature of society so that they do not rebel, such as possibility of moving up the class ladder, charity being superior to social security, personal autonomy at the expense of social justice (even though it is perfectly possible to have both), and religious morality and salvation. Marxism is based on dialectical materialism: Only the world around us matters, man is subject to the forces of nature and nature only, and it is what drives the quote in my signature, which is the scientific component (motion) of Marxist theory. Religion for instance, is a form of idealism that is used to undermine materialism, so that the proletariat is distracted or otherwise made unaware about what is really happening to him. He is told that being a man of faith will bring him salvation, and that if he suffers in this life by being the subject of an authoritarian sky policeman, he will be rewarded in the next life (which of course, there is no empirical evidence to support this). This is why almost all Marxists are atheist. Some proletariat may not be too intelligent, but this is unrelated to false consciousness, in general. Many of them are in fact intelligent and know what is best for themselves, but structural forces around them that they cannot see (AND that they can see, literal structural forces meaning corporate buildings, lol) prevent them from understanding the true nature of their circumstances. Others, such as myself, ARE aware of the circumstances, but are powerless to do anything about it, and are reduced to trying to make the best of a bad situation any way they can, just like everyone else. But my point is, false consciousness isn't a "you are dumb, listen to me I know whats best for you" arrogant proposition that assumes the worker is a mindless hamster. Rather, it is a methodology used by the bourgeoisie to mislead the proletariat into being an indentured servant.

I can understand you being skeptical of Marxism, given its shaky history. But I hope people can also understand the perspective of the Marxist, and their skepticism of our current system and why we greatly dislike it. I will be the first person to say all authority should be questioned. Given that, I think your views that Marx was some authoritarian, undemocratic douche bag are hostile, and a bit unfairly grounded. It almost seems like you view an authoritarian government as being necessary to maintain a communist society, that there is no other way such a system can operate. I think that is where we disagree at.
https://www.youtube.com/user/FireIceTalon


"Your very ideas are but the outgrowth of conditions of your bourgeois production and bourgeois property, just as your jurisprudence is but the will of your class, made into law for all, a will whose essential character and direction are determined by the economic conditions of the existence of your class." - Marx (addressing the bourgeois)
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Messages In This Thread
Unemployment, and so on - by Jester - 10-24-2011, 09:22 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 10-24-2011, 03:12 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by Kevin - 10-24-2011, 03:25 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 10-24-2011, 04:38 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by Kevin - 10-24-2011, 05:19 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 10-24-2011, 06:14 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by Kevin - 10-24-2011, 07:29 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by DeeBye - 10-26-2011, 03:40 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 10-26-2011, 06:45 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by Tris - 11-02-2011, 02:27 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 11-02-2011, 04:18 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by DeeBye - 11-03-2011, 02:46 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 11-03-2011, 04:59 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by NuurAbSaal - 10-24-2011, 08:55 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by Tris - 10-26-2011, 03:21 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by Taem - 11-05-2011, 02:01 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by DeeBye - 11-05-2011, 03:20 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by eppie - 11-05-2011, 12:47 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 11-05-2011, 03:54 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by FireIceTalon - 11-05-2011, 06:50 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by Jester - 11-05-2011, 07:27 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by DeeBye - 11-06-2011, 02:49 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by eppie - 11-06-2011, 08:17 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by Jester - 11-06-2011, 11:16 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by DeeBye - 11-07-2011, 03:09 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by FireIceTalon - 11-06-2011, 08:14 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 11-06-2011, 08:37 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by eppie - 11-06-2011, 09:11 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 11-06-2011, 06:20 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by eppie - 11-07-2011, 08:20 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by FireIceTalon - 11-06-2011, 08:29 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by Jester - 11-06-2011, 08:54 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by NuurAbSaal - 11-06-2011, 09:52 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by Treesh - 11-07-2011, 01:19 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 11-07-2011, 05:49 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by FireIceTalon - 11-07-2011, 08:32 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 11-07-2011, 08:26 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by eppie - 11-08-2011, 08:47 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 11-08-2011, 10:06 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by eppie - 11-08-2011, 11:19 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 11-08-2011, 02:54 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by LavCat - 11-08-2011, 11:38 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by FireIceTalon - 11-06-2011, 09:10 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by FireIceTalon - 11-07-2011, 10:59 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 11-08-2011, 02:50 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by DeeBye - 11-08-2011, 03:30 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 11-09-2011, 12:38 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by Jester - 11-09-2011, 12:49 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by FireIceTalon - 11-09-2011, 04:49 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by LavCat - 11-09-2011, 05:17 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 11-09-2011, 06:18 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by DeeBye - 11-09-2011, 03:44 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by eppie - 11-09-2011, 08:58 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 11-09-2011, 07:58 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by FireIceTalon - 11-08-2011, 05:58 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 11-08-2011, 09:28 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by FireIceTalon - 11-08-2011, 04:15 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by Jester - 11-08-2011, 05:40 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 11-08-2011, 07:16 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by FireIceTalon - 11-08-2011, 06:32 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by Jester - 11-08-2011, 09:32 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by FireIceTalon - 11-08-2011, 08:34 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by FireIceTalon - 11-08-2011, 10:59 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by Jester - 11-08-2011, 11:51 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by FireIceTalon - 11-09-2011, 01:08 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by Jester - 11-09-2011, 12:16 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 11-09-2011, 07:14 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by FireIceTalon - 11-09-2011, 04:14 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by DeeBye - 11-09-2011, 04:38 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by FireIceTalon - 11-09-2011, 06:53 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 11-09-2011, 06:56 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by FireIceTalon - 11-09-2011, 07:34 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 11-09-2011, 08:20 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by Jester - 11-09-2011, 11:25 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by FireIceTalon - 11-09-2011, 11:42 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by Jester - 11-10-2011, 12:19 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by FireIceTalon - 11-10-2011, 02:09 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 11-10-2011, 03:24 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by FireIceTalon - 11-10-2011, 04:37 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by Jester - 11-10-2011, 11:44 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 11-10-2011, 12:39 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by DeeBye - 11-10-2011, 03:48 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by eppie - 11-10-2011, 08:07 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 11-10-2011, 02:22 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by Jester - 11-10-2011, 06:12 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 11-10-2011, 06:56 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by FireIceTalon - 11-10-2011, 04:07 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 11-10-2011, 04:27 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by DeeBye - 11-10-2011, 04:43 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 11-10-2011, 06:12 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by FireIceTalon - 11-18-2011, 07:25 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by NuurAbSaal - 11-18-2011, 09:46 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by ShadowHM - 11-18-2011, 12:22 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by eppie - 11-18-2011, 12:40 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 11-18-2011, 03:12 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by eppie - 11-18-2011, 03:21 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 11-18-2011, 04:51 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by FireIceTalon - 11-18-2011, 06:04 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by Jester - 11-18-2011, 06:21 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by Kevin - 11-18-2011, 07:55 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by Tal - 11-18-2011, 03:41 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by FireIceTalon - 11-18-2011, 10:24 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by FireIceTalon - 11-18-2011, 06:53 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by Roland - 11-18-2011, 08:34 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 11-21-2011, 04:56 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by FireIceTalon - 11-21-2011, 05:36 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 11-21-2011, 06:44 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by Jester - 11-21-2011, 08:56 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by ShadowHM - 11-19-2011, 12:16 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by FireIceTalon - 11-18-2011, 08:01 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by Jester - 11-18-2011, 11:24 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by Bun-Bun - 11-18-2011, 11:39 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by FireIceTalon - 11-21-2011, 07:37 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 11-21-2011, 09:22 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by FireIceTalon - 11-21-2011, 03:36 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 11-21-2011, 04:08 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by Treesh - 11-21-2011, 04:19 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by kandrathe - 11-21-2011, 07:24 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by Jester - 11-21-2011, 11:01 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by Tal - 11-21-2011, 04:50 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by FireIceTalon - 11-21-2011, 09:06 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by eppie - 11-22-2011, 08:07 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by Jester - 11-22-2011, 09:13 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by eppie - 11-22-2011, 10:07 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by Jester - 11-22-2011, 11:29 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by FireIceTalon - 11-21-2011, 11:12 PM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by DeeBye - 11-22-2011, 04:16 AM
RE: Unemployment, and so on - by FireIceTalon - 11-22-2011, 04:48 AM

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