Unemployment, and so on

[kandrathe]

Each contribute to the whole of the problem, which is that most of us ordinary people are trapped in a economic pit where the sides are too steep for us too climb toward that dream of upward social mobility. I think this is the true American Dream, that we can use our talents and efforts to improve our lives and those of our children.

Could you elaborate? The first and second sentence seem to be contradicting each other. Do you believe the American {dream} exists or not?

Yes, the dream being that we can use our talents and efforts to improve our lives and those of our children. But, you are correct, it was an awkward sentence.

Unlike the Marxian social utopia, I want things to be based more meritocratically.

I agree but to make your society a meritocracy I think you can still move a lot to the left. Most countries that I know of (netherlands, denmark, Sweden, Germany, France) are far better in this sense than the US is.

I'm not sure it's a left-right thing. Either side can dominate the middle class ensuring that they are left continually struggling for a prize which is kept out of reach. Both types of domination have been demonstrated by the worlds most powerful nations. We are still struggling for the same liberté, égalité, fraternité we sought in 1790's. I want to carry my share of the societal burden (police, garbage, roads, etc.). The way it is structured now, half of us carry no load, and the other half carry double, or triple. This is currently unfair, because the ability to carry the load is based on income, and not wealth. If you are a worker (even a well paid one), you are usually not the owner. We tax workers, and not so much the owners.

The single best thing for a good meritocracy is getting a good, free and equal school system.

Nothing is free. Somebody pays.

In the US your daddy buys you into a top university and this enures you of getting a good job. Whereas a poor guy growing up in some ghetto will maximally go to some community college and when he applies for a job all those other that went to better Universities will be chosen before him. (that there are a few exceptions to this only confirms this 'rule').

Even an ivy league education is much more accessible than it was a few decades ago. Nobody pays the sticker price on college anymore, most are discounted by 30 to 50%, or more. The better your secondary school/grades and SAT/ACT scores, the better financial aid package you will be offered. If it is how you think, how did Obama get into and through Harvard?

A poor guy growing up in some ghetto with good grades may grow up to be a middle manager, and then afford to send his children to top line college. Which is again, the American dream. My kids will do better than I could, and I'll help boost them up higher than I was able to get.

I think your (and the American) view on meritocracy is being able to get filthy filthy rich and when your are there having to pay as little tax as possible.

I've been filthy rich, and I didn't like the 80 hours weeks, being on air planes 5 days out of 7, and waking up in hotels trying to remember what city I was in today. I traded that in for a stress free working class life.

My idea of a meritocracy is giving everybody a good chance of getting a good education and becoming whatever they want (of course within his abilities....some people are smarter than others). I am OK with such a person becoming a millionaire but he needs to contribute to society to keep it this way.

The tricky part there is "becoming whatever they want ", because currently we have a whole bunch of educated career seekers who are not finding that they can become whatever they want.

The American dream is a mistake in probability calculus. It is like letting playing blackjack with 6 decks where all the aces have been removed....yes you can still win but your chances are far lower than that of the guy next to you who is playing with a deck of only aces, kings and queens. If you grow up under the poverty line (1 in 6 Americans I read today.....49 million people) in a bad neighborhood with very crappy schools your effort to work your way out of there is 100 times as big as it is for the guy that grows up in a mansion in Beverly hills and who's father is paying for him to go to Yale. And once this poor guy manages to work his way out of the slums and applies for a job together with the guy from Beverly hills, the chances are 99% that the BH guy gets the job.

I think you are letting your anecdotes influence your perception of reality. Beverly Hills is an exception, and the children of the Hollywood elite have proven their penchant for getting into trouble and ending up in jails. But, let's talk about the generic rich kid, son of a banker, lawyer, doctor, etc, who also qualifies (through their high school performance, interviews, and test scores ) to get into one of the elite colleges or universities. They still need to navigate one of the hardest scholastic programs, and then use their connections to get a good job. Did they earn it, or was it handed to them. They certainly had a leg up due to their parents position, and money. But, unless you're the Winklevoss twins, you do need to work for a living.