This is why Westboro Baptist Church is a joke

[Jester]

Neither did I. But, I was offended by your implications of my defense of bigots.

You're telling me that people who believe that homosexuality is morally wrong, are folk of complex opinions who not only don't deserve to be "lumped" together as bigots for their (self-expressed!) bigotry. Not only are you telling me this, but you're telling me that saying so is "an obvious tactic of demagoguery" and that I'm pretty much in the same category as Dubya? You started it.

I'll stand by my characterization. It doesn't matter if their opinions are complex; people can have complex, bigoted opinions. It doesn't matter if they don't support the worst discrimination; people can be mildly bigoted.

You're defending his position for him.

I haven't defended anything he said. I've attacked your position for a series of absurd statements. When I have something to say about Eppie's argument, I'll say so.

I'm not labeling anyone, I'm leaving room for a multitude of reasons including your assumption, and those are both positive and negative.

You're misrepresenting peoples' opinions, which is no better.

Or, we could discuss it like mature adults.

Anytime. Just, if you want to accuse me of demagoguery, do it directly, don't throw it in passive phrases, and don't expect me not to respond in kind.

And, how many times in his 33 years did he go make any trouble at the temple? Once. And, that one time has a clear explanation. It was an act to express his outrage at the blasphemy of moneychangers, and animal dung filling the holy temple. It in no way resembles what Fred Phelps does. In fact, he was surrounded and sought out the dregs of society, rather than associate with the ascetics, or the pharisees.

Jesus came to the temple, the holiest place in the Jewish religion, during Passover, their holiest celebration, and started a fight with people who apparently were just there to perform currency exchange for pilgrims, and sell animals for sacrifice - which is entirely in line with their traditional faith. Where's the respect there? We only hear he did it once in the text, although it is hardly a thorough account, but it certainly isn't the only time he is depicted as berating or starting fights with other religious figures. Jesus associated with the Pharisees and Sadducees all the time. Specifically, to tell them that they were hypocrites and sinners, and that they were all going to burn in hell, unless they abandoned their ways and followed him instead. He came with an absolutist message of salvation and damnation, a division between the righteous and the wicked. He led a small sect of devoted fanatics, not a broad mainstream denomination.

Phelps also seeks out the "dregs of society," as you so delicately put it. He's actually gotten awards for his defense of black people in court, in a time and place that discriminated heavily against them. Pointless to isolate the handful of good things, and ignore the overall context of a raving madman? I agree - but we have to apply it equally.

I despise Fred Phelps. He is the worst kind of fanatical lunatic and self-important cult leader. But, were the man alive today, doing and saying exactly what it says in the Bible (proper nouns suitably updated)? I'm pretty sure I'd think approximately the same of Jesus.

-Jester