07-09-2003, 09:45 PM
(This post was last modified: 07-10-2003, 12:49 PM by Crystalion.)
[ed: as the primary point of this post is the lists, I will add/tweak there as needed]
I almost replied to the statement in Atma's Tavern (in a v1.10 thread) that Amazon Multishot with knockback is the best crowd control in the game (they did mention adding cold as well). But since my issue is technical and my interest is more general with CC than the particular statement I thought I'd unburden myself here.
Background: I've been fooling around with single player v1.10beta, mostly as a new [and untwinked] assassin [players 1] but I've briefly tested some things with older characters. I took a number of classes into Act I Hell to get a feel for how much harder the game is. [My characters have traded among themselves only] My level 72 [?] Fury Werewolf Druid [who has completed v1.09 Hell] was my only character to not experience any inconvenience or need to change playstyle. My level 57 Necro found, as the only difference, that things are harder to kill [for initial corpses for CE], but that is the Necro lifestyle, eh? My other characters have, in this test and others, all found the game harder or at least different.
So the skills, equipment and techniques of "Crowd Control" seem to now be more valuable.
I don't intend to write a complete guide to CC, but I've never seen a class-wide survey or even mention of a few odd methods and thought that if I mentioned a couple oddities perhaps the other Lurker's will flesh it out [and I can enjoy learning something].
So here's an [incomplete] overview list off the top of my head [expect omissions and naming errors] by technique, effect, class/skill...
Please note: I understand that quickly and utterly slaughtering the whole crowd is very effective "control" but I'm making the assumption that this isn't practical universally [at least in v1.10]. Thus I am simplifying my writing task by ignoring all the ways that increasing the ROK [rate of kill] helps crowd control. Further my time is not unlimited, so while I am attempting to start a v1.10 discussion, the vast majority of "facts" I'll allude to have not been verified in v1.10 [which, after all, at time of this writing, isn't even released]
I'm going to make this post just be the lists. I'll add commentary as time permits in follow-up posts.
Technique [something you "do"]
=======================
advance slowly [aka control monster activation]
run away [spread them out]
run past [leave them behind... funny fact, not many monsters are "required" kills]
move quickly [be the one choosing where to be]
move discontinuously [e.g. leap/LA, teleport, Dragon Flight, Town Portal/Waypoints]
use terrain pathing constraints [e.g. doorways, AI pathing stupidities]
Bait [provide a more tempting target than you for the AI]
damage dilution [since "defeat in detail" works for you, conversely make the enemy dilute their power across many targets]
Effects impairing monsters
===================
slow, Holy Freeze
chill, freeze [many skills]
fear [many skills]
Confusion, Attraction
converted
Taunt
knockback
stun [many skills]
blind
Cloak of Shadows
anything removing a corpse that might be ressurected [will ignore this in this post for simplicity]
Class/skills highlights [reminder: this is incomplete, so I'll focus on "special" transmission of impairing effects]
=============================================================================
Amazon:
AE/multi-monster skills transmitting [some] impairing effect[s]:
Freezing arrow, Exploding arrow, Multishot, Strafe, Pierce, Fend, Lightning Fury
Assassin:
Blade Fury [holding the skill active and mouse arcing in front of you allows spaming effects on to multiple targets]
as well as Blade Sentinel, Blade Shield [note all three, v1.10, become damage dealers as well]
AE cold: Blades of Ice, Phoenix Strike
Cloak of Shadows [special mention: can get your Shadow Warrior to do this for you]
Mind Blast [AE stun and conversion]
Psychic Hammer [knockback]
Barbarian:
Taunt, Howl, Stun, Warcry, Grim Ward, Bash
Whirlwind for affecting multiple monsters with impairments
Leap [knockback]
Druid:
Fury for affecting multiple monsters with impairments
Molten Bolder [repeated knockback]
Summon Grizzly [stuns]
Shockwave [AE], Maul [stuns]
Twister
Necromancer:
Clay Golem [slows target]
Iron Golem [effects by virtue of item created with]
Revives [effects by virtue of monster used]
Terror, Confuse, Attract, Dim Vision [AI affecters]
Decrepify [slow]
Bone Wall
Bone Prison [vastly better (synergies etc.) to dump points into in v1.10 and *still* "free"/spamable around level 26]
Paladin:
Zeal for affecting multiple monsters with impairments
Sanctuary [AE undead knockback]
Holy Freeze [also, of course, on Act II NM mercs]
Conversion
Smite [knockback, stun]
Charge [knockback, rapid movement]
Sorceress:
Glacial Spike
Blizzard
Frozen Orb
Frost Nova
Telekinesis
Hirelings:
Rogues with effects transmitted by arrow [flee transmitted AE by exploding arrow was a v1.09 favorite of mine]
Merc with Holy Freeze
Merc/Barb transmitted by melee
Sorc ice blast
I almost replied to the statement in Atma's Tavern (in a v1.10 thread) that Amazon Multishot with knockback is the best crowd control in the game (they did mention adding cold as well). But since my issue is technical and my interest is more general with CC than the particular statement I thought I'd unburden myself here.
Background: I've been fooling around with single player v1.10beta, mostly as a new [and untwinked] assassin [players 1] but I've briefly tested some things with older characters. I took a number of classes into Act I Hell to get a feel for how much harder the game is. [My characters have traded among themselves only] My level 72 [?] Fury Werewolf Druid [who has completed v1.09 Hell] was my only character to not experience any inconvenience or need to change playstyle. My level 57 Necro found, as the only difference, that things are harder to kill [for initial corpses for CE], but that is the Necro lifestyle, eh? My other characters have, in this test and others, all found the game harder or at least different.
So the skills, equipment and techniques of "Crowd Control" seem to now be more valuable.
I don't intend to write a complete guide to CC, but I've never seen a class-wide survey or even mention of a few odd methods and thought that if I mentioned a couple oddities perhaps the other Lurker's will flesh it out [and I can enjoy learning something].
So here's an [incomplete] overview list off the top of my head [expect omissions and naming errors] by technique, effect, class/skill...
Please note: I understand that quickly and utterly slaughtering the whole crowd is very effective "control" but I'm making the assumption that this isn't practical universally [at least in v1.10]. Thus I am simplifying my writing task by ignoring all the ways that increasing the ROK [rate of kill] helps crowd control. Further my time is not unlimited, so while I am attempting to start a v1.10 discussion, the vast majority of "facts" I'll allude to have not been verified in v1.10 [which, after all, at time of this writing, isn't even released]
I'm going to make this post just be the lists. I'll add commentary as time permits in follow-up posts.
Technique [something you "do"]
=======================
advance slowly [aka control monster activation]
run away [spread them out]
run past [leave them behind... funny fact, not many monsters are "required" kills]
move quickly [be the one choosing where to be]
move discontinuously [e.g. leap/LA, teleport, Dragon Flight, Town Portal/Waypoints]
use terrain pathing constraints [e.g. doorways, AI pathing stupidities]
Bait [provide a more tempting target than you for the AI]
damage dilution [since "defeat in detail" works for you, conversely make the enemy dilute their power across many targets]
Effects impairing monsters
===================
slow, Holy Freeze
chill, freeze [many skills]
fear [many skills]
Confusion, Attraction
converted
Taunt
knockback
stun [many skills]
blind
Cloak of Shadows
anything removing a corpse that might be ressurected [will ignore this in this post for simplicity]
Class/skills highlights [reminder: this is incomplete, so I'll focus on "special" transmission of impairing effects]
=============================================================================
Amazon:
AE/multi-monster skills transmitting [some] impairing effect[s]:
Freezing arrow, Exploding arrow, Multishot, Strafe, Pierce, Fend, Lightning Fury
Assassin:
Blade Fury [holding the skill active and mouse arcing in front of you allows spaming effects on to multiple targets]
as well as Blade Sentinel, Blade Shield [note all three, v1.10, become damage dealers as well]
AE cold: Blades of Ice, Phoenix Strike
Cloak of Shadows [special mention: can get your Shadow Warrior to do this for you]
Mind Blast [AE stun and conversion]
Psychic Hammer [knockback]
Barbarian:
Taunt, Howl, Stun, Warcry, Grim Ward, Bash
Whirlwind for affecting multiple monsters with impairments
Leap [knockback]
Druid:
Fury for affecting multiple monsters with impairments
Molten Bolder [repeated knockback]
Summon Grizzly [stuns]
Shockwave [AE], Maul [stuns]
Twister
Necromancer:
Clay Golem [slows target]
Iron Golem [effects by virtue of item created with]
Revives [effects by virtue of monster used]
Terror, Confuse, Attract, Dim Vision [AI affecters]
Decrepify [slow]
Bone Wall
Bone Prison [vastly better (synergies etc.) to dump points into in v1.10 and *still* "free"/spamable around level 26]
Paladin:
Zeal for affecting multiple monsters with impairments
Sanctuary [AE undead knockback]
Holy Freeze [also, of course, on Act II NM mercs]
Conversion
Smite [knockback, stun]
Charge [knockback, rapid movement]
Sorceress:
Glacial Spike
Blizzard
Frozen Orb
Frost Nova
Telekinesis
Hirelings:
Rogues with effects transmitted by arrow [flee transmitted AE by exploding arrow was a v1.09 favorite of mine]
Merc with Holy Freeze
Merc/Barb transmitted by melee
Sorc ice blast
"He's got demons? Cool!" -- Gonzo, Muppet Treasure Island
"Proto-matter... an unstable substance which every ethical scientist in the galaxy has denounced as dangerously unpredictable." -- Saavik, Star Trek III
"Mom! Dad! It's evil! Don't touch it!" -- Kevin, Time Bandits
"Proto-matter... an unstable substance which every ethical scientist in the galaxy has denounced as dangerously unpredictable." -- Saavik, Star Trek III
"Mom! Dad! It's evil! Don't touch it!" -- Kevin, Time Bandits