09-01-2010, 04:25 PM
Hi,
No. These are people who have been incarcerated either because of a trial or a plea bargain. Whether the laws they broke are just or the sentence they received is appropriate is an entirely different question. The fact remains that they are legally incarcerated for offenses against society. While they are incarcerated, society supplies their needs. There is nothing wrong (and a lot of good) in demanding that they contribute to the cost of that support. Indeed, the value of their output comes nowhere near to covering all of their cost, much less making a profit.
From another perspective, it is well and long known that a number of people who are confined to a small area with nothing to do will become a problem. That is why sailors on warships have throughout history swabbed decks, tarred and painted all surfaces, improved the rigging with fancy rope work, and drilled on every conceivable situation. Similarly, in the army people cut grass that hasn't had a chance to grow, paint rocks, barracks, and most anything that doesn't move, and spend hours a day perfecting their shoe shine and brass polish.
The same is true, even more so, for convicts. Modern stupidity considers forcing these people to work to be some infringement on their rights. If these people were not in jail and not criminals, doesn't their need for food, etc., force them to work? Is locking criminals up and then leaving them alone with nothing to do but pump iron and get tattoos a smart thing to do? Does it help in rehabilitation, or does it increase the deterrence value of prison?
Right. Because, of course, you know all the details of this case and this person. Clearly, he is a good boy, straight A student, a deacon in his church and in the choir, and always respectful to his parents. Stealing those tapes was just a youthful indiscretion. Or, maybe he's a gang-banger suspected in dozens of violent crimes, and the cops have been trying to get him off the streets for years. Remember, with all the crimes Al Capone was responsible for, the only thing they got him for was tax evasion. You think they gave him a stiff sentence and shipped him off to Alcatraz because he owed the US government a few bucks? Sometimes, you just got to do the best with what you've got.
Now, the jail situation in the US is disgraceful. To a large part, that is because of our ignorant official attitude towards drugs. Not only is the manufacture, distribution, and use of drugs illegal, but the artificially high price of drugs maintained because of their illegality leads to prostitution, robbery, theft, etc. That is not the fault of the cops, the judges, or the penal system. It is the fault of that damned puritanical hypocrisy practiced by the bulk of Americans. But that is another rant.
--Pete
(09-01-2010, 12:02 PM)Crusader Wrote: Especially the question 'is this slavery?'
No. These are people who have been incarcerated either because of a trial or a plea bargain. Whether the laws they broke are just or the sentence they received is appropriate is an entirely different question. The fact remains that they are legally incarcerated for offenses against society. While they are incarcerated, society supplies their needs. There is nothing wrong (and a lot of good) in demanding that they contribute to the cost of that support. Indeed, the value of their output comes nowhere near to covering all of their cost, much less making a profit.
From another perspective, it is well and long known that a number of people who are confined to a small area with nothing to do will become a problem. That is why sailors on warships have throughout history swabbed decks, tarred and painted all surfaces, improved the rigging with fancy rope work, and drilled on every conceivable situation. Similarly, in the army people cut grass that hasn't had a chance to grow, paint rocks, barracks, and most anything that doesn't move, and spend hours a day perfecting their shoe shine and brass polish.
The same is true, even more so, for convicts. Modern stupidity considers forcing these people to work to be some infringement on their rights. If these people were not in jail and not criminals, doesn't their need for food, etc., force them to work? Is locking criminals up and then leaving them alone with nothing to do but pump iron and get tattoos a smart thing to do? Does it help in rehabilitation, or does it increase the deterrence value of prison?
(09-01-2010, 03:03 PM)eppie Wrote: 25 years in prison after stealing 9 videotapes. Suddenly, having your hand chopped off doesn't seem to far over the top anymore.
Right. Because, of course, you know all the details of this case and this person. Clearly, he is a good boy, straight A student, a deacon in his church and in the choir, and always respectful to his parents. Stealing those tapes was just a youthful indiscretion. Or, maybe he's a gang-banger suspected in dozens of violent crimes, and the cops have been trying to get him off the streets for years. Remember, with all the crimes Al Capone was responsible for, the only thing they got him for was tax evasion. You think they gave him a stiff sentence and shipped him off to Alcatraz because he owed the US government a few bucks? Sometimes, you just got to do the best with what you've got.
Now, the jail situation in the US is disgraceful. To a large part, that is because of our ignorant official attitude towards drugs. Not only is the manufacture, distribution, and use of drugs illegal, but the artificially high price of drugs maintained because of their illegality leads to prostitution, robbery, theft, etc. That is not the fault of the cops, the judges, or the penal system. It is the fault of that damned puritanical hypocrisy practiced by the bulk of Americans. But that is another rant.
--Pete
How big was the aquarium in Noah's ark?