08-07-2010, 07:30 PM
Hi,
Effectively, the cops left first. Or, to put it more accurately, their presence did. It happened when beat cops were put into cars. The beat cop was there. You'd be in an alley with some of your friends discussing some mischief or other, and then you'd notice that he was about ten feet away, with a look on his face that said, "Talk about it all you want, but if you do it, you'll deal with me." It's not like a patrol car could sneak up on you all quiet like. Hell, a patrol car probably wouldn't even go into an alley -- at most, maybe, shine a light down it. Thinking about shoplifting, tagging, some other vandalism? Figure you can get away before the cops show up? And there's the beat cop, standing right in front of the store, rocking back and forth on his feet. Fantastic deterrent.
I no longer remember the name of the cop who had the 2nd Ave and 28th St beat, but I did know it then. And I can still visualize his face and hear him say, "Hey, you kids. Break it up and go play some stick ball or something." We weren't particularly good, but he was one of the reasons we didn't go completely bad.
It's generally true that he who would want to be a cop shouldn't be allowed to be a cop. However, that's why there's laws and rules and groups to enforce both. Like IA and the press. So if the cops fail, yes it is their fault. But it is also the fault of those who should be guarding the guardians. And, ultimately, it is our fault for preferring pap and entertainment to news.
Yeah, really. The poverty in Colombia, Mexico, and Afghanistan have nothing to do with the illegal trafficking of drugs. The hatred of the Jews and therefor the Americans who support them in the Middle East is not connected wit the *two* attacks on the WTC. Strictly, like every other problem you see, a local problem. I'm beginning to think it's not a political stance. You simply have myopia.
Bullcrap. I lived in NYC when they started doing that. The family of a Puerto Rican friend of mine moved into one of those projects. I'd occasionally spend the night at their place. At first it was nice. Then came the graffiti on the walls, the petty vandalism, the stench of urine and vomit in the stairwells, the broken hall lights, the bags of garbage rotting in the halls, the broken elevators that took months to fix (in a ten or so story apartment complex), the toughs that started demanding 'protection'. There's a reason why 'the projects' has come to be synonymous with 'ghetto' or 'slums'.
Of course, the crime rate in the year immediately following the opening of the projects was lower for that area than was the year immediately before the 'slum clearance'. And so, the spin cycle claimed a victory. If so, it was a Pyhrric victory at best.
What cleaned up NYC (assuming you can call that cesspool clean in any sense of the word) was Rudy Giuliani's get tough on crime campaign. And about the only real long term effect that really had was to reclaim the Times Square district.
The solution to crime? Like poverty, it seems to be a permanent problem. Police presence helps. Decriminalizing self destructive behavior would help. Cynically in that if drug use is not a crime, crime rates would go down. But realistically, if the police, judiciary, and penal systems weren't so flooded with drug offenses, perhaps they could devote more effort to real crimes. Redoing our judicial system so that it is more accurate, more impartial, and more based on finding the truth and administering justice than it is in some legal gamesmanship would help a lot. And making jails a place that everybody, not just the weak, dreads would help also.
The patient has multiple organ failures, and you're focusing on a wart.
--Pete
(08-07-2010, 07:56 AM)kandrathe Wrote: Perhaps there are not enough donut and coffee shops in bad crime areas. But, which left first, the shops or the cops? No shops, no cops. No cops, no shops.
Effectively, the cops left first. Or, to put it more accurately, their presence did. It happened when beat cops were put into cars. The beat cop was there. You'd be in an alley with some of your friends discussing some mischief or other, and then you'd notice that he was about ten feet away, with a look on his face that said, "Talk about it all you want, but if you do it, you'll deal with me." It's not like a patrol car could sneak up on you all quiet like. Hell, a patrol car probably wouldn't even go into an alley -- at most, maybe, shine a light down it. Thinking about shoplifting, tagging, some other vandalism? Figure you can get away before the cops show up? And there's the beat cop, standing right in front of the store, rocking back and forth on his feet. Fantastic deterrent.
I no longer remember the name of the cop who had the 2nd Ave and 28th St beat, but I did know it then. And I can still visualize his face and hear him say, "Hey, you kids. Break it up and go play some stick ball or something." We weren't particularly good, but he was one of the reasons we didn't go completely bad.
(08-07-2010, 03:33 PM)kandrathe Wrote: Sometimes the profession attracts the wrong kind of people, mostly those that seek abuse of power in the form of laxness, criminality, or by being overly severe.
It's generally true that he who would want to be a cop shouldn't be allowed to be a cop. However, that's why there's laws and rules and groups to enforce both. Like IA and the press. So if the cops fail, yes it is their fault. But it is also the fault of those who should be guarding the guardians. And, ultimately, it is our fault for preferring pap and entertainment to news.
(08-07-2010, 05:11 PM)kandrathe Wrote: Crime is very much a local problem.
Yeah, really. The poverty in Colombia, Mexico, and Afghanistan have nothing to do with the illegal trafficking of drugs. The hatred of the Jews and therefor the Americans who support them in the Middle East is not connected wit the *two* attacks on the WTC. Strictly, like every other problem you see, a local problem. I'm beginning to think it's not a political stance. You simply have myopia.
Quote:One of the best strategies in Minneapolis was one that New York started. Essentially, the city council would target an entire crime ridden area as a zone of renewal, then purchase the properties on entire blocks, tear everything down, and build fresh. It was like attacking a cancer with major surgery, and it works.
Bullcrap. I lived in NYC when they started doing that. The family of a Puerto Rican friend of mine moved into one of those projects. I'd occasionally spend the night at their place. At first it was nice. Then came the graffiti on the walls, the petty vandalism, the stench of urine and vomit in the stairwells, the broken hall lights, the bags of garbage rotting in the halls, the broken elevators that took months to fix (in a ten or so story apartment complex), the toughs that started demanding 'protection'. There's a reason why 'the projects' has come to be synonymous with 'ghetto' or 'slums'.
Of course, the crime rate in the year immediately following the opening of the projects was lower for that area than was the year immediately before the 'slum clearance'. And so, the spin cycle claimed a victory. If so, it was a Pyhrric victory at best.
Quote:The criminals would have to move and rebuild their operations, but by doing this over, and over, each time crimes grip would be less and less. They would lose their customer base. Eventually, without a safe haven, it was mostly dispersed and gone.
What cleaned up NYC (assuming you can call that cesspool clean in any sense of the word) was Rudy Giuliani's get tough on crime campaign. And about the only real long term effect that really had was to reclaim the Times Square district.
The solution to crime? Like poverty, it seems to be a permanent problem. Police presence helps. Decriminalizing self destructive behavior would help. Cynically in that if drug use is not a crime, crime rates would go down. But realistically, if the police, judiciary, and penal systems weren't so flooded with drug offenses, perhaps they could devote more effort to real crimes. Redoing our judicial system so that it is more accurate, more impartial, and more based on finding the truth and administering justice than it is in some legal gamesmanship would help a lot. And making jails a place that everybody, not just the weak, dreads would help also.
The patient has multiple organ failures, and you're focusing on a wart.
--Pete
How big was the aquarium in Noah's ark?