Imigration in America

[kandrathe]

No. The price a consumer is willing to pay is the demand curve. Day one, Econ 101 - prices are determined by the intersection of supply and demand. Right now, demand is high, and supply is restricted. Costs of smuggling and running illegal operations drive the price up for everyone, and where there is little competition between dealers, there are market power issues as well that increase prices. Get rid of all that, and prices will drop dramatically.

Illegally smuggled cigarettes are much cheaper than legal ones, and sin tax free. What would be different? Bootleg liquor is cheaper than the legal, and highly taxed stuff. Once government, and the pharma companies are involved, they will not be able to make the price competitive with what is available on the street. The illegal trade will continue.

As I said. This is not about what I think *will* happen. It's about what I think *should* happen.

By the by, nobody is advocating outlawing salt, straight up. There is the push to legislate the maximum salt content in processed foods, and there is the crazy idea in New York to disallow salt in restaurant preparation. Even the craziest of the crazies is not saying you can't use salt yourself to your heart's content, or discontent, as the case may be. (And yes, at least the second idea is entirely ridiculous, and I suspect will go exactly nowhere.)

That some are seriously contemplating it concerns me. It concerns me that our legislators have become the watch dogs of the public good, rather than allowing people to be responsible for their own good. All processed food products in the US are labeled with Fat and Sodium content. Now informing is not enough, because people don't read them or care to read them. Now, they need to go further to restrict the formula's of the manufacturers.

What's possible in Somalia, or some parts of Colombia, is not possible in the United States. Kidnapping and ransoming on a large scale is not a plausible revenue stream for gangs in the US.

I think there is a tipping point where law enforcement gets overwhelmed by the incidence of crime, and investigation becomes nearly impossible. I've seen this happen elsewhere, such as Zimbabwe, or even South Africa.

Supplier? Hell, they'll be the producers! New, designer heroin, now with nasal decongestants! Methamphetamines with viagra - for the young at heart!

My point there is that every nation already sells these "bad" drugs, in slightly altered forms, as perfectly legal perscriptions. We've just stigmatized a segment of them for no good reason, and created a gigantic problem in doing so. (Our brilliant idea now is to ban the legal ones, one by one, until everything you can get high off of is banned except for gasoline and alcohol, because we're complete hypocrites when it comes to our favourite drug.)

I agree. It should be this way, and consumers should be able to weigh and take their own risks. I've been trying to put together a chemistry set for my sons. Do you know how hard it is to find certain chemicals these days? You have to get them from products meant for other purposes and distill your own.

Where did this come from? Who's talking about slavery? The key to getting rid of slavery is substitutes - wage workers can do more or less the same thing as slaves. However, similar logic still applies: abolishing slavery did not abolish exploitation of former slaves.

Yes, we are talking about degree. I'm looking at the motivation for human trafficking, which is not about getting poor Mexicans to work in the US. If the reason for coming voluntarily disappears, the trafficking of people will continue (as it does from other places not south of us). We are the destination for victimized peoples from every place where life is cheap.

Maybe you think they come based on hope alone. But they actually come based on what they hear, what they see, what friends and family tell them. They don't know that there's a specific job for them, but they know that there are jobs. When the jobs start to dry up, they stop coming, or head home. Notice the massive decline in illegal migration since the beginning of the economic crisis?

There is a silver lining in every cloud, I guess.

Hope is one thing, but the migrants aren't idiots. They aren't sticking around where there's no work. When they go home and tell everyone there aren't any jobs left, fewer will make the trip.

Maybe we could pay them to go back and "say" there are no jobs here.

Got a source for that? Because it contradicts everything I've ever read on the topic.

http://www.fairus.org/site/DocServer/ca_...?docID=141

My understanding is that, ever since fines for employers were ramped up, the game changed from "we'll hire you under the table" to "their papers looked legit, officer!" and illegal migrants started receiving normal paycheques under false social security numbers. Specific numbers are difficult to find, but the IRS gets eight million returns a year that do not correctly match any social security number. That's billions in revenue. There are only maybe 11 million illegals in the US, total. Most of these returns are from border states - hmmm, I wonder why?

The lowest 40% of wage earners owe no taxes, and many are "owed" tax credits by those who do pay taxes. I believe we are near the point where the majority of people in the US do not pay income taxes at all.

I suppose, in that particular libertarian sense that is utterly tone-deaf to democracy. Citizens collectively make their own rules, and their "unfreedom" is chosen rather than imposed. Guest workers have no such responsibility for their political future.

Only from the point of view of that democracy who is voting themselves more money from the treasury than they contribute back into it. Yes, I would say that the majority and their representatives are choosing their own "unfreedom" (slavery) expecting that some nebulous "rich" will continue to pay their bills. In your language then, collectively, it is chosen, but individually, it is imposed.