Imigration in America

[kandrathe]

Well, Europe now has almost no internal borders anymore. With EU membership, you can travel from poor Poland to the rich UK to work - and many people have. I think the results have been tremendously beneficial to everyone involved. The US has been benefiting from this kind of internal migration for ages, it's just disguised by the fact that 50 states are "one" country.

There are issues where people abuse our "state" welfare systems, such as, the caravan of people who drive up from Chicago to Minneapolis to get their free money once a month. There are also issues of tax reciprocity, or lack thereof. People often move out of state to gain the benefits of lower taxation, but work in Minnesota (a high tax state). As Occhi alluded, the same differentials occur between states, but are less pronounced.

I'm not saying literally destroy the border, with no customs, no passports, nothing at all. Just that coming to the US to work, or even to live, be far less restricted than it is now.

My mistake then, as I thought you envisioned a system of unrestricted travel.

If you're really concerned by this (I wouldn't be), just set up a block of a few years on new migrants receiving benefits. Lots of countries do this. That will stop anyone who simply cannot work from coming and receiving benefits. But, overwhelmingly, migrants come to work. Work makes production, production creates taxes, taxes fund programs. They are an enormous net benefit to the social welfare system, not a cost.

If this were wrapped into an immigration reform bill, then I would support it.

Plenty of countries teach second, third, fourth languages. Their kids don't seem any worse for wear. I'll need some evidence before believing that one.

The cost is in that the children and parents who come are temporarily unable to function in an English speaking society. The time it takes to catch them up drags down the ones who come prepared to learn. Try to find a State certified teacher who speaks Swahili, Thai, Chinese, Spanish, Hmong, and Russian just to name a few...

So restrict access to the welfare state for a few years following migration. In general, migrants come to the US to work. Always have.

Most have, but not all.

This isn't anarchy. It's relatively open migration. That's the system the US had in place for the majority of its history. Was that anarchy? Did that collapse the country? Did that eliminate the government, preventing them from enforcing rights? This is just a strawman. Nobody is talking about abolishing the US government.

It's not a straw-man if I understand you correctly. So, then you and I are in essence in favor of the same thing... regulated immigration, no social welfare for non-citizens, and less restricted by national quotas.

You mocked Eppie's response as equivocation, but here you talk about your "right of blood" to citizenship. By what right does blood confer anything? In what way do we deserve what our ancestors did, had, or were? How is this different in principle from inheriting a title of nobility, or a crown? You don't inherit "character" or "heart" from your parents. (Okay, you kind of inherit your literal heart. But that's different.)

I thought you'd catch that. What I feel and what are the *real* reasons can be different. I can feel "ownership" of the Foshay tower, because my grandfather helped build it, but I know I do not own a bit of it.