07-06-2003, 04:31 AM
@kandrathe (because this is a late reply)
"You present an interesting dilema. Do parents have the right to take legal, yet (to us) extreme measures to try to change the "thinking" in their children?"
Well, that depends how much you value the individual. If the individual is favored, then the answer is no. But if society and the people (especially those near to the children who ARE minors) are favored then the answer seems to be yes. Basically it's a question of whether the person themself or the problem and the dangers associated with it are more important. The problem is, it's merely an argument of two opinions facing eachother.
"Now, back to what you said. Hmmm, human rights. Firstly, they should have the right to be in a safe environment. I didn't read about any allegations of physical abuse, although I think the punishment by restraint is a form of physical incarceration. The right to have proper clothing, nutrition, and shelter. The right to have access to health care, and education. Again, it seems that these kids are being cared for. Remember, I'm on your side. I disagree with the reasoning, and methods. The child is in effect incarcerated, with their only crime being the loss of trust of their parents."
You are just taking into account the physical aspect of the issue. Consider the mental scarring associated with such a "treatment". Obviously you assume everyone is entitled to physical security, but what about mental? Shouldn't "the right to be in a safe environment" apply to both physically and mentally safe? If people are given "The right to have proper clothing, nutrition, and shelter", they should have an equally healthy atmosphere for their minds, spiritual essence, souls or whatever you would call it. They do get health care and education, you are right they are not being mutilated or anything like that, but you are only assessing(spelling!?) the basic, external, physical needs of a human being.
Since you are "on my side", I am also on yours :P. We both disagree with the methods used in this facility. However I think the issue is greater than just physical abuse but the whole disregard for the "victim" as a person but rather something much more like a "dysfunctional unit" which needs repairs. It's almost like sending your car to the shop, except the car is alive. The whole process is only looked at from an objective point of view, however people are not machines, but complex animals and deserve more respect than this place gives them.
-Wapptor
"You present an interesting dilema. Do parents have the right to take legal, yet (to us) extreme measures to try to change the "thinking" in their children?"
Well, that depends how much you value the individual. If the individual is favored, then the answer is no. But if society and the people (especially those near to the children who ARE minors) are favored then the answer seems to be yes. Basically it's a question of whether the person themself or the problem and the dangers associated with it are more important. The problem is, it's merely an argument of two opinions facing eachother.
"Now, back to what you said. Hmmm, human rights. Firstly, they should have the right to be in a safe environment. I didn't read about any allegations of physical abuse, although I think the punishment by restraint is a form of physical incarceration. The right to have proper clothing, nutrition, and shelter. The right to have access to health care, and education. Again, it seems that these kids are being cared for. Remember, I'm on your side. I disagree with the reasoning, and methods. The child is in effect incarcerated, with their only crime being the loss of trust of their parents."
You are just taking into account the physical aspect of the issue. Consider the mental scarring associated with such a "treatment". Obviously you assume everyone is entitled to physical security, but what about mental? Shouldn't "the right to be in a safe environment" apply to both physically and mentally safe? If people are given "The right to have proper clothing, nutrition, and shelter", they should have an equally healthy atmosphere for their minds, spiritual essence, souls or whatever you would call it. They do get health care and education, you are right they are not being mutilated or anything like that, but you are only assessing(spelling!?) the basic, external, physical needs of a human being.
Since you are "on my side", I am also on yours :P. We both disagree with the methods used in this facility. However I think the issue is greater than just physical abuse but the whole disregard for the "victim" as a person but rather something much more like a "dysfunctional unit" which needs repairs. It's almost like sending your car to the shop, except the car is alive. The whole process is only looked at from an objective point of view, however people are not machines, but complex animals and deserve more respect than this place gives them.
-Wapptor
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all possible worlds; and the pessimist fears this is true."
-- James Branch Cabell
-- James Branch Cabell