The other Awards Obama will will this year...

[Jester]

Not always. There are many examples of nations where there is a non-military, non-revolutionary transition to a totalitarian state. Italy, Japan, Germany before WWI, North Korea, etc.

In Italy, Mussolini took power in a paramilitary coup - the march on Rome. So scratch that one.

In North Korea, Kim Il Sung took power during WWII, with the support of the Soviet Union's military - same as most of Eastern Europe. So scratch that one too.

Germany before WWI was not, in any meaningful sense, a totalitarian state. So scratch that one as well.

Japan is the strongest case, but it was hardly a country that had a solid democracy that slid slowly into totalitarianism piece by piece. The Tokugawa shogunate was an absolutist dictatorship, and even Meiji Japan was hardly a functioning democratic state - more like a militaristic oligarchy.

But I'll even spot you Japan, as an interesting sort-of-exception. In all other cases, Totalitarianism has been imposed by some kind of force - a coup, a revolution, a takeover by a foreign nation, or something similar. Functioning democracies have not historically just drifted aimlessly into totalitarianism through "creeping socialism".

Right. But do they have a pay tsar who monitors executive salaries? Do they have legislation taxing executive bonuses at 90%? Do they have an executive branch that enacts defacto censorship, legislative hostility and "punishments" towards companies and organizations it determines are domestic "enemies".

Sure, plenty of functioning democracies have had "supertaxes" that tax the extremely wealthy at rates of 90% or higher. Not many of them have kept them, but most of Northern Europe has had them at one time or another. Executive salary caps are also not particularly unusual in countries with a closer relationship between the state and business.

As for "de facto" censorship, and "punishment" towards domestic "enemies", I'm not sure what you're going on about, but it sounds kind of paranoid.

Of course, you would take this to the ridiculous extreme of bringing *kittens* and death camps into the same conversation. :rolleyes:

I was just making fun of your slippery slope argument. Obviously, nobody is killing kittens or creating death camps, and it is silly to suggest as much. You, however, are talking about Totalitarianism. You know, THIS kind of government. Or THIS kind. Or THIS kind. So, I'm not really feeling very apologetic for "exaggerating" - considering the satirical context.

As per health care, I see you haven't budged much since the last thread on the topic, but if you want my reply to any of that, it's all sitting there, so I won't bother going over it. Anyone interested is more than welcome to read through it again.

-Jester