Are you a domestic terrorist?
Quote:Beyond that, I am not impressed with your dis of Antonio López de Santa Anna. In the Americas, the nineteenth century was a time of wide open opportunity, both for political experimentation and pursuing personal ambitions. James Bowie was typical of that era, as both adventurer and land speculator (of dubios integrity). Santa Anna is and was, for my money, one of the most extraordinary men of the nineteenth century in the Americas, a mover and shaker who had profound impact (for ill and good) throughout his lifetime. (One of my favorite footnotes on him is that while he didn't invent chewing gum, he was instrumental in getting the raw materials to the American who eventually did.)
Extraordinary? Yes. Adventurer? Yes. Political experimenter with personal ambitions? Oh, my, yes. A mover and shaker? Definitely. Had a profound impact? Very much so. The chiclets thing? Kinda neat.

But was he any good for Mexico? Absolutely not. Nobody not only exemplified, but exasperated, the ridiculous succession of Presidentes through betrayal, treason, murder and all around dirty dealing like Santa Anna. With all due deference to Iturbide before him, he really set the mould for the corrupt caudillo who uses the state as his personal domain. His almost absurd willingness to trade the territorial integrity of his nation for his personal fortune is legendary - one might reverse Nathan Hale and declare his regret that he has but one country to give for his life. His ability to raise an army through charisma and sheer chutzpah was great, but his ability to win wars when it counted was terrible - which was a very dangerous combination indeed.

To put it in context: see Juan Manuel de Rosas for someone who pulled many of the same stunts, but with considerably more competence - and a country he didn't leave torn to shreds.

If George Washington can be given some measure of symbolic credit for setting the tone of American politics to come, it only seems fair to afford the same courtesy to Santa Anna.

-Jester

Edit: Patrick Henry was "Give me liberty or give me death". Corrected.
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Messages In This Thread
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-05-2009, 03:15 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-05-2009, 05:57 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-05-2009, 06:09 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by eppie - 09-05-2009, 06:53 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Vandiablo - 09-05-2009, 07:22 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-05-2009, 08:27 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-05-2009, 08:56 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-05-2009, 09:36 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-05-2009, 09:56 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-05-2009, 11:10 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-06-2009, 12:11 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-06-2009, 01:47 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-06-2009, 02:23 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by --Pete - 09-06-2009, 02:54 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Hammerskjold - 09-06-2009, 06:02 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by eppie - 09-06-2009, 07:21 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-06-2009, 12:06 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Vandiablo - 09-07-2009, 02:29 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by --Pete - 09-07-2009, 02:36 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by DeeBye - 09-07-2009, 03:22 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by --Pete - 09-07-2009, 04:15 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Vandiablo - 09-07-2009, 04:25 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by DeeBye - 09-07-2009, 04:36 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Vandiablo - 09-07-2009, 06:19 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by --Pete - 09-07-2009, 06:40 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-07-2009, 02:44 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-07-2009, 05:59 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by --Pete - 09-07-2009, 07:07 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-07-2009, 07:57 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-07-2009, 10:30 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-07-2009, 11:05 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Lissa - 09-07-2009, 11:59 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-08-2009, 12:11 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-08-2009, 02:00 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-08-2009, 10:46 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-08-2009, 12:20 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by --Pete - 09-08-2009, 06:40 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Occhidiangela - 09-08-2009, 10:12 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Occhidiangela - 09-08-2009, 10:13 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-08-2009, 10:24 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by eppie - 09-09-2009, 06:03 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-09-2009, 10:37 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-09-2009, 11:01 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by --Pete - 09-09-2009, 11:04 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-09-2009, 11:09 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by eppie - 09-10-2009, 03:17 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by --Pete - 09-10-2009, 08:49 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-10-2009, 09:02 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-10-2009, 09:15 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by --Pete - 09-10-2009, 10:33 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-10-2009, 11:32 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-10-2009, 11:52 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by --Pete - 09-11-2009, 02:04 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by eppie - 09-11-2009, 06:37 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by eppie - 09-11-2009, 06:43 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by --Pete - 09-11-2009, 06:51 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-11-2009, 07:03 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by eppie - 09-11-2009, 03:06 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by weakwarrior - 09-11-2009, 04:02 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by eppie - 09-11-2009, 04:54 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Nystul - 09-11-2009, 08:46 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by --Pete - 09-11-2009, 09:22 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-12-2009, 02:48 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by ShadowHM - 09-12-2009, 10:10 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by --Pete - 09-12-2009, 10:18 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-12-2009, 11:45 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-12-2009, 11:54 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Hammerskjold - 09-13-2009, 02:21 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by DeeBye - 09-13-2009, 04:21 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-13-2009, 05:56 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by DeeBye - 09-13-2009, 05:58 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-13-2009, 06:24 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-13-2009, 11:43 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-13-2009, 02:02 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by eppie - 09-13-2009, 02:15 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-13-2009, 02:44 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-13-2009, 02:49 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-13-2009, 04:05 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-13-2009, 07:08 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-13-2009, 07:25 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-14-2009, 12:55 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-14-2009, 12:59 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by --Pete - 09-14-2009, 01:02 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-14-2009, 01:26 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by --Pete - 09-14-2009, 01:41 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by eppie - 09-14-2009, 05:29 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by eppie - 09-14-2009, 05:38 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Vandiablo - 09-14-2009, 01:22 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by eppie - 09-14-2009, 01:28 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Vandiablo - 09-14-2009, 01:34 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Vandiablo - 09-14-2009, 02:00 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by eppie - 09-14-2009, 02:20 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-14-2009, 11:28 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-15-2009, 12:08 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-15-2009, 12:38 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Vandiablo - 09-15-2009, 12:54 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-15-2009, 01:02 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-15-2009, 01:43 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Hammerskjold - 09-15-2009, 04:08 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-15-2009, 12:07 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-15-2009, 11:35 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-16-2009, 01:22 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-16-2009, 01:54 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by --Pete - 09-16-2009, 02:23 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Occhidiangela - 09-16-2009, 03:46 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-16-2009, 11:55 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Occhidiangela - 09-16-2009, 09:40 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-16-2009, 09:56 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-16-2009, 10:49 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-16-2009, 11:09 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Occhidiangela - 09-17-2009, 11:08 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-18-2009, 12:12 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by eppie - 09-18-2009, 08:13 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Occhidiangela - 09-18-2009, 09:18 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-18-2009, 11:37 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Vandiablo - 09-19-2009, 01:48 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Vandiablo - 09-19-2009, 02:04 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Occhidiangela - 09-19-2009, 03:31 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Vandiablo - 09-19-2009, 09:12 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Vandiablo - 09-19-2009, 09:22 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-19-2009, 12:39 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Occhidiangela - 09-19-2009, 04:46 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-19-2009, 04:47 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Occhidiangela - 09-19-2009, 05:13 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by --Pete - 09-19-2009, 08:43 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by --Pete - 09-19-2009, 08:43 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by --Pete - 09-20-2009, 01:22 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-20-2009, 04:04 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by --Pete - 09-20-2009, 04:17 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by kandrathe - 09-20-2009, 01:30 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-20-2009, 04:25 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Occhidiangela - 09-29-2009, 11:46 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 09-30-2009, 01:38 AM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Occhidiangela - 10-02-2009, 03:55 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Jester - 10-02-2009, 06:38 PM
Are you a domestic terrorist? - by Occhidiangela - 10-02-2009, 08:22 PM

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