09-07-2009, 07:07 PM
Hi,
You, Jester, see the reality of modern industrial nations as an indication of the progress that mankind has made in science, in technology, in government, in medicine, in standard of living, etc. I suspect that you also see flaws in the systems, things that should, indeed must, be improved. Because of the nature of the discussion, you have been forced to defend the positive aspects, the accomplishments, almost to the point of implying the non-existence of the negative. So, at this point, you have been forced into a Pollyanna corner.
kandrathe, on the other hand, probably sees the same realities. I doubt that he would deny the benefits of antibiotics, the superiority of democracy to monarchy, the value of heating and insulation, or the importance of an adequate food supply. However, he has focused on the continuing shortcomings of our modern societies. Shortcomings that, to some extent we all agree on (although we might, probably do, disagree on the solutions to these shortcomings). By defending the negative side, he has placed himself in an anti-Pollyanna corner.
I still think, contrary to your previous assertion, that we're all seeing the same glass. But we're each seeing that glass through our perspective. As for me, I see that glass as having enough to quench my thirst, though I do wish for more.
And to kandrathe, sorry for putting you in the third person, but I am responding to Jester.
--Pete
Quote:If the difference isn't immediately, shockingly obvious to you, then I think we have an irreconcilable difference in our beliefs.I'd say that that is clearly the case. It is a difference of *beliefs*. Putting Kant aside for a moment, I think we all see the same reality. It is how we react to that reality that differs.
You, Jester, see the reality of modern industrial nations as an indication of the progress that mankind has made in science, in technology, in government, in medicine, in standard of living, etc. I suspect that you also see flaws in the systems, things that should, indeed must, be improved. Because of the nature of the discussion, you have been forced to defend the positive aspects, the accomplishments, almost to the point of implying the non-existence of the negative. So, at this point, you have been forced into a Pollyanna corner.
kandrathe, on the other hand, probably sees the same realities. I doubt that he would deny the benefits of antibiotics, the superiority of democracy to monarchy, the value of heating and insulation, or the importance of an adequate food supply. However, he has focused on the continuing shortcomings of our modern societies. Shortcomings that, to some extent we all agree on (although we might, probably do, disagree on the solutions to these shortcomings). By defending the negative side, he has placed himself in an anti-Pollyanna corner.
I still think, contrary to your previous assertion, that we're all seeing the same glass. But we're each seeing that glass through our perspective. As for me, I see that glass as having enough to quench my thirst, though I do wish for more.
And to kandrathe, sorry for putting you in the third person, but I am responding to Jester.
--Pete
How big was the aquarium in Noah's ark?