The Economy
#73
Quote:Cooperative structures must be created, developed, and enforced. Unless we come to live in a much rosier world than the one we have traditionally lived in, the gains from defection in social games are simply too high. The free rider problem crushes large-scale voluntary socialism to death, and usually small-scale as well, given enough time. Either there needs to be some enforcible power given to groups, which conflicts with radical individualism, or you need to accept strong competition as inevitable. People will only get together when they see the gain outweighs the alternatives, and will defect when they no longer do.
I've been thinking about this from the "individual", on up through family, to neighborhood, to community. I think much above community, you will start to see defections of "free riders". But, in all societies, you have had "free riders" in that there are some too sick, too young, or too old to care for themselves. If we accentuated our social structures at a level where interdependence was personal, then I think you would have far more motivation for participation, and far less motivation for ditching responsibility. I think you are right though, that at the community level there needs to be accountability for participation and social service. I would not want it to be "enforced" however, other than that like the "little red hen", if you are able bodied and don't help out in the baking, you don't get to help out in the eating. So, that allows for the radical individualist to go it alone if that is their wish (live and let live).

Our modern society's social organization is optimized for industrial labor utility, where workers and families are mobile to move to where employment is needed. We warehouse our children from age 5 through 18 in institutions that provide more hours of care and oversight than do their parents. And, after the worker is worn out to the point where their body begins to fail, we warehouse our elderly in institutions that tend to them until they die. I just think we have depersonalized "living" for the expedience of industrialism.

Another concept that has shaped my thinking in this is "tribe", and what that means for a modern society. It is interesting to me that "outlaw" organizations develop into "tribes" whether they be bikers, mafioso, or street gangs.
”There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, Than are dreamt of in your philosophy." - Hamlet (1.5.167-8), Hamlet to Horatio.

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Messages In This Thread
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-10-2009, 03:48 PM
The Economy - by Kevin - 06-10-2009, 04:11 PM
The Economy - by Jester - 06-10-2009, 04:31 PM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-10-2009, 05:40 PM
The Economy - by Jester - 06-10-2009, 08:19 PM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-11-2009, 01:38 AM
The Economy - by Jester - 06-11-2009, 02:13 AM
The Economy - by --Pete - 06-11-2009, 03:15 AM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-11-2009, 04:03 PM
The Economy - by naverone - 06-12-2009, 01:02 AM
The Economy - by Jester - 06-12-2009, 01:47 AM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-12-2009, 11:55 AM
The Economy - by Jester - 06-12-2009, 01:59 PM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-12-2009, 05:06 PM
The Economy - by --Pete - 06-12-2009, 05:22 PM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-12-2009, 08:19 PM
The Economy - by --Pete - 06-12-2009, 08:53 PM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-12-2009, 09:07 PM
The Economy - by Jester - 06-12-2009, 09:21 PM
The Economy - by Jester - 06-12-2009, 09:24 PM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-13-2009, 01:21 AM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-13-2009, 01:31 AM
The Economy - by Jester - 06-13-2009, 03:08 AM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-13-2009, 04:07 AM
The Economy - by Jester - 06-13-2009, 02:02 PM
The Economy - by Zenda - 06-13-2009, 02:22 PM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-13-2009, 04:49 PM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-13-2009, 05:01 PM
The Economy - by Jester - 06-13-2009, 05:06 PM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-13-2009, 05:37 PM
The Economy - by Jester - 06-13-2009, 05:46 PM
The Economy - by Zenda - 06-13-2009, 08:43 PM
The Economy - by Jester - 06-13-2009, 10:29 PM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-13-2009, 11:24 PM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-13-2009, 11:54 PM
The Economy - by Jester - 06-14-2009, 12:21 AM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-14-2009, 12:58 AM
The Economy - by Jester - 06-14-2009, 01:15 AM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-14-2009, 02:35 AM
The Economy - by Jester - 06-14-2009, 01:51 PM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-14-2009, 04:37 PM
The Economy - by Jester - 06-14-2009, 05:02 PM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-14-2009, 07:26 PM
The Economy - by Zenda - 06-15-2009, 04:33 AM
The Economy - by eppie - 06-15-2009, 07:51 AM
The Economy - by Ashock - 06-15-2009, 04:24 PM
The Economy - by --Pete - 06-15-2009, 05:00 PM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-15-2009, 05:23 PM
The Economy - by Ashock - 06-15-2009, 05:33 PM
The Economy - by Zenda - 06-15-2009, 10:00 PM
The Economy - by Jester - 06-15-2009, 10:48 PM
The Economy - by Ashock - 06-15-2009, 11:20 PM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-16-2009, 12:28 AM
The Economy - by Ashock - 06-16-2009, 12:49 AM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-16-2009, 01:10 AM
The Economy - by --Pete - 06-16-2009, 02:30 AM
The Economy - by Jester - 06-16-2009, 02:34 AM
The Economy - by Jester - 06-16-2009, 02:41 AM
The Economy - by Occhidiangela - 06-16-2009, 03:42 AM
The Economy - by Jester - 06-16-2009, 04:09 AM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-16-2009, 04:27 AM
The Economy - by Jester - 06-16-2009, 02:49 PM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-16-2009, 03:41 PM
The Economy - by Ashock - 06-16-2009, 04:28 PM
The Economy - by Jester - 06-16-2009, 04:31 PM
The Economy - by Jester - 06-16-2009, 04:46 PM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-16-2009, 04:49 PM
The Economy - by Jester - 06-16-2009, 05:22 PM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-16-2009, 06:14 PM
The Economy - by Jester - 06-16-2009, 08:59 PM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-17-2009, 12:30 AM
The Economy - by Jester - 06-17-2009, 02:51 AM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-17-2009, 04:55 AM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-19-2009, 06:00 AM
The Economy - by Jester - 06-19-2009, 01:25 PM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-19-2009, 08:11 PM
The Economy - by Jester - 06-19-2009, 10:38 PM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-20-2009, 01:30 AM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-23-2009, 05:10 PM
The Economy - by Jester - 06-23-2009, 05:49 PM
The Economy - by kandrathe - 06-24-2009, 06:08 AM
The Economy - by Jester - 06-24-2009, 09:53 AM

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