Nice to see O'Bama working on getting rid of midnight Bush rules

[kandrathe]

Those "squabbles over Pomerania" killed hundreds of thousands of people, both directly on the battlefield, and from the extreme deprivation caused by hunger, taxation, or pillage. The Great Northern War was Christians all around, and yet it didn't moderate them one iota. Quite the contrary, the Swedes thought their King had been blessed with invulnerability by god, propelling them to yet further heights of valor and conquest. (Not that the Russians were any better, probably much worse.)

It's not really fair to place at the feet of a religion the thirty years war. There were factors like the reformation, but by in large it was the politics and policies of the time that of expanding and contracting empires that caused the wars and deaths. Gustavus Adolphus is remembered as a brilliant general, a religious man, and pretty much the founder of the modern Swedish society. I think Sweden has been pretty peaceful, because it lost the bulk of its population due to emigration before WWI. The thirty years war, while devastating locally, only reached about 7 million deaths, and it was considered the worst war in European history. It pales in comparison to the general carnage which has no religious under currents. Explain the millions who died in WWII, in the bombings, in the battles, in the genocides and the purges, in Germany, Russia, and China. Explain the millions that died in the Mongol conquests. Explain the Khmer Rouge. If you are looking at Islam specifically, you will find that it has been in constant war since 632, with the worst portion being during the Timurid dynasty. Since then, through the Ottoman Turks, to the present day, it is a culture and religion founded by a warrior, and steeped in blood. I don't know if there is a "kinder, gentler" side to that religion, but there are portions of the Koran that promote peace, tolerance, and justice. Most of Islam follows that more peaceful path, however there are these violent sects that give them all a bad reputation. We do owe the Islamic scholars a debt for our system of mathematics and algebra.

Modern (and vastly less religious) Sweden, on the other hand, seems pretty peaceful. The most religious parts of the world, on the other hand, seem hell-bent on blowing themselves to smithereens. Even the Buddhists, normally among the better-behaved religionists, are killing each other over very trivial matters.

Enlightenment was a move away from religion, not a move towards it.

I disagree. This is you totally denying any contributions made my religion in furthering culture. Universities, hospitals, and even societal concepts in peace and harmony are a result of religious influences. You know, people like Mother Teresa are an example of what religious people do, not some weird aberration.