Nice to see O'Bama working on getting rid of midnight Bush rules

[kandrathe]

This is a very different thing than speculating about the "first cause" of the universe. This is assigning oneself, and one's species, a fundamental cosmic role. With no evidence of the divine powers that have apparently granted us this special treatment, it seems like no more than than self-aggrandizement. We are very small, we evolved from tiny proteins, and we could be wiped out by any one of a hundred fairly minor astronomical events at any time. That is the measure of our importance at present.

That was in response to your statement, "But this is does not appear to be what five billion (or so) people are engaged in when they are engaged in Religion." Religion is not science, if that is what you meant to say. Even the epistemology of religion is only speculative, whereas science has the benefit of dealing with a reality that is testable. For those that ascribe to option C, that some external force created the universe, they wonder why. They wonder if that force created them purposefully, and anecdotally over the ages this speculation has accumulated into that body of philosophical speculation we call theology. Sprinkle in a few unexplainable phenomena which we call "miracles", and its easy to see why 5 billion people would find sufficient reason to walk the smooth well worn wide path of one of the modern religions. It's tradition, it's family, it's community, it gives a purpose for some, it provides some hope for others, and its all pretty harmless, and in fact, mostly beneficial to the well being of the species. At least it is better than the brutal barbarism of raw "survival of the fittest". I'm a direct descendant of a people that believed that random violence insured a glorious reception in Valhalla. I think Christianity was not such a bad thing in pacifying that aggression (although they did squabble with the Catholics over Pomerania for awhile) and it eventually brought the world to a more enlightened place.

I'm with Douglas Adams on this one. Our "role" in the universe is so extraordinarily trivial that to even grasp the true dimensions involved in our cosmic insignificance would be psychological suicide. (Thankfully, we're not equipped to do that, no matter how hard we try.)

And, yet, I was just contemplating yesterday the importance of creating something of extraordinary beauty, like Michelangelo, Schubert, Mozart, Da Vinci, etc. At least religion has had the benefit of inspiring some of the most passionate expressions of artistic talent. So, what value is that joy, love, or adoration in the big cosmic scheme? For me, I think it is an aspect of complete fulfillment for those that experience it, for that moment of time. A split second later it was destroyed to make room for an interstellar bypass.

Being concerned enough for someone think about and empathize with their problems is one thing. Asking the invisible, unknowable creator of the universe to give them a hand is another. I'm sure some people do both at once, but it's the first that seems considerate to me, and the second bizarre (not to mention ineffective).

You at least get the benefit of the former, so perhaps you might overlook the awkwardness of the latter. I can relate to how you feel since I live in a liberal area where people appeal to pagan earth, air, water, and fire spirits sometimes in ceremonies. But, hey, it makes them feel better.

Even this is just talking about prayer as a harmless personal issue, where nobody really expects tangible results. People die each year because they or their family believe in the literal healing power of prayer, and refuse medical treatment and put their faith in god. So, prayer, on the whole, is certainly not harmless. It impedes people's ability to take the world seriously on its own terms.

Yet, I wonder what small percentage (of the already small percentage of people who trust solely to faith healing) of them regret their decision. I also believe that people should have the freedom to die in the manner of their choosing, so I don't get worked up about it.