Michael Phelps.... Deserving of the hype?

[Kevin]

Every sport is different, swimming is a great sport (note my remark in the other thread about that swimming is one of the real sports) but you must agree that Bolt will never be able to get 8 medals in one olympic. The difference between 100m and 400 meter running is way bigger than 400 meter breaststroke relay and 100 meter breaststroke. Just looking at physical build of the athlete.

Golf is not olympic material period, what is next? Darts?

Emiel.

Actually what Phelps did would be like Bolt winning the 100m, the 4x100m relay (same as the 4x100 free relay), the 200m, and the 100m hurdles. The 100 hurdles is less different from the 100 than breaststroke is from freestyle (FYI breaststroke is by far the most different of the strokes). And maybe Bolt would need to win the 400m and the 4x400m relay as well to compare the longer races Phelps did. The long jump isn't that different from sprinting either. You just add an explosive muscle release at the end of the sprint. But he wouldn't need to add that. And yes I still contend the 400m is as different from the 100m as the 200m in swimming is from the 100m. The track guys can still get 6 medals if they really wanted to do something similar to Phelps.

I do agree that Phelps has more opportunity to win medals than Bolt does even given what I said above. But Bolt would still need to win at least 4 medals and I personally think he would need to win 5 (a 400 or longer event) across those different distances and types of events for it to be equatable to what Phelps did. I didn't deny that Carl Lewis came close and if I put more time into ranking who I feel were the greatest Olympians Lewis would certainly be near the top of that list. But what Phelps did this Olympics (and nearly did at the last Olympics as well) was still more impressive than any other competitor has done in a single Olympics.

Oh and as to Phelps build. There have been other swimmers built like Phelps (all of them are somewhat similar) but you don't see them succeeding the way Phelps did either. 17 races (9 of them world records since I forget he broke 2 world records in a semi finals and prelims as well, some of them less than an hour apart. It's nutso and it's not attempted because no one else is that good. I'm mean I brought up Katie Hoff earlier. She came in with world records in 3 of the 6 events she swam. She left with a silver medal and 2 bronze medals. An amazing Olympics for sure, but it helps illustrates how hard it was. And honestly the fact that in several of the events 2 or 3 folks beat previous world records tells me that competition was HARD. Yes the suits and the pool played a part, but more world records were set in swimming at this Olympics than in the previous 2 combined. And don't forget there was new suit technology in 2000 a year in which more swimming world records were set prior to the Olympics than in all but 3 other Olympic years (this year being just in front of 2000).

And Bolt's Olympics isn't over either, he has more chances to impress me. I've been amazed at how he has dominated the competition, the fact that he shuts down his runs with 10-30 meters to go and still destroys everyone else, even in the finals. He has been extremely dominate. It's crazy, but I don't think it's quite as good as what Phelps did. I'm more impressed by him than I was of Michael Johnson a few Olympics back (and he crushed folks in the 200, things were closer for him in the 400 though). It's on par with what Lewis did, but I don't put it quite up there with Phelps.

I wasn't as good at track as I was at swimming, but I swam and ran with guys who were good enough to get college scholarships in both sports (I wasn't good enough at track to get a scholarship, I did get a partial scholarship in swimming at the division 2 level I was not good enough for NCAA D1). So not all my comparison of the events is from personal experience it's from talking with others who were better than me in both sports. I like to compare stuff when done at the same level, so talking with someone who was competitive in both track and swimming at the D2 level helped, not Olympic level, but still. I also base my opinions on some of the studies I did in the mid 90's, most of that info from reading journals and talking with folks about it. I'm pretty confident in my comparisons between the 2 sports.


As to other sports/competitions at the Olympics, there have been some other amazing single Olympics in tha past. There are others, besides Bolt and Phelps going on right now too. Heck Dwayne Wade this year in basketball is having a lights out tournament, his numbers are certainly some of the best in Olympic BBall history. I still don't think it's as impressive. Misty May and Keri Walsh are doing crazy things on the beach volleyball courts and the fact they haven't lost a game in over a year now is insane quite the performance. I'm still more impressed by Phelps. Park Sung-Hyun set 3 Olympic and 1 World record in Archery events unfortunately she didn't get the gold in the individual, I was pretty impressed by that too.

The 'it's just swimming argument' is total hogwash. Which is why I've been so wall of text, trying to explain that to people since so many don't understand. But it doesn't mean I'm blind to the other stuff. I just think Phelps has been amazing. I'd like to see him defend his 200 fly title in 2012, no male swimmer has ever won an individual event in 3 Olympics. I really rooting for Grant Hackett to pull it off in the 1,500 but well he didn't. If Phelps can do that, with what he did in Athens and what he did here in Beijing, there will be no doubt in my mind for him being the greatest Olympian ever.

What seals it for me was that Phelps surrendered his spot on the 400 meter medley relay team to his team-mate and rival Ian Crocker at the 2004 Olympics in Athens. That team went on to win the gold medal without Phelps.

I do have to comment on this. Phelps still got a gold medal for that. The same holds true this year. Crocker got a gold medal this year for swimming on the prelims. Swimming is not the only sport that does this. It happens in track with the relays. It happens in gymnastics (well it used to, not sure about with the new format) with people who participated in the team prelims had all their scores dropped and didn't participate in the team finals, they still got the team medal. You may have been aware of that, but I did want to make sure. One of Phelps 6 golds from Athens was in the 4x100 medley relay even though he gave up his spot on the relay finals to Crocker, but since Phelps swam the fly on the prelim he got his medal.

Now people arguing about those medals counting, I'll grant them. Of course since Phelps still has more individual event golds than anyone else as well, I don't think it matters. :) But it does show the Olympic spirit, and Crocker did have a faster split than Phelps (and should have beat him in the 100 fly that year anyway, I still don't know how Phelps managed to win either of his 100 fly golds:) ).