Quote:Jestrification again.
Good that it's getting airplay. It won't make the OED unless we repeat it! (Maybe a few more for good measure... Jestrification! Jestrification! Jestrification!)
Quote:Do you read what I write? If you do, it must must spin around inside your head and come out as something totally different. For example, did you read where I wrote, "David Koresh is a horrible comparison to Wright in all ways..."? I meant that.
Okay. And when you said that Jim Jones was a better comparison, moving from one suicide cult lunatic to another suicide cult lunatic, I'm sure you were just trying to find appropriate examples of a charismatic religious leader, and just happened to come across David Koresh, and having found that example ridiculously overblown, immediately went for a more moderate analogy... Jim "Drink the Kool-Aid" Jones.
And, when pressed on that one, who do we get? Bob Jones. I'm assuming you're talking about the first one, although it's not like the son or grandson are much less crazy. ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_Jones%2C_Sr. ) This man was a segregationist and a supporter of the Klan who apparently thought that opposition to state racism was opposition to God. So, I'm not really seeing this as much of a compromise, although admittedly his name, unlike your "horrible" Koresh and "better" Jim Jones, does not conjure images of hundreds of dead bodies.
Examples matter, Kandrathe. They honestly do. You can't just keep picking the most evil, the most crazy, the most outrageous people in the world, compare them to Wright, and then get furious when someone doesn't understand your subtle distinction that you're only talking about the aspect of their personality that they share with a hundred thousand other religious leaders, rather than the things everyone associates their names with. Even your language is excessive. If you look up "cult of personality" in wikipedia, what do you get? North Korea. Stalin. Those are the images implied by that term. You've already gone down the Hitler road, with a similar "how dare you interpret me as meaning that!" protest. Either you are truly, deeply cursed at coming up with appropriate images and analogies in your arguments, or, on some level, you're intending these things.
How about next time you think of a comparison that is "a horrible comparison [...] in all ways", you maybe don't make it, rather than throwing it in there, throwing another nearly identical comparison next to it for good measure calling it "better", and then raging on when someone dares to think that you're being extreme?
Quote:Here's a little snippet from a biographer; "[... usual motivational speaker blurb crap...]" You don't consider that fawning?
It's a blurb about his accomplishments. You could find a similar one about any major public figure. Of course it's fawning, it's designed to be a rundown of his positive accomplishments. You're honestly putting this out as evidence that the man runs a cult of peronality? I could conjure one of those for the Dean of any University, the Governor of any State, the Pastor of any Church. That this is evidence that people offer their unquestioning, uncritical devotion to his word, his image, his icon? I don't even know what to say about that.
Quote:People line up to be seen by the guy. The president of the UCC called him a Prophet! Egads!
He is a popular religious leader with a busy public speaking schedule. He doesn't run a shrine to himself in a compound in the wilderness.
And the UCC believes in Prophecy. If you're going to go out on one limb and say he's a heretical crazy who has everyone over a barrel, you can't simultaneously argue that following a well-accepted aspect of that theology makes him a cult-of-personality nutcase. I don't think prophecy exists. I think it's a load of hooey. But they do, and they consider it part of the role of pastors (not all, not everyone is a prophet) to continue the prophetic tradition as a part of their faith. This is totally mainstream.
Quote:Consider how much TUCC has grown because of Rev. Wright, from a small church to now over 10,000 members. This is more than the good coffee, and the free cookies.
Trinity has grown by leaps and bounds. He made an appeal to a black community being led away from Christianity by groups like the Nation of Islam, and brought an interpretation of religion and a way of practicing it that reinvigorated faith in the Christian church. He was outspoken and dogged about many of the social justice issues that were of importance to the black communities of Chicago. He is friendly to his congregation and passionate about his religion. He is talented at the song and dance of delivering a sermon. As a pastor, he is a tremendous success story. His faith is well within the broad, inclusive span of UCC doctrine, which emphasizes social justice and flexibility regarding the peculiarities of different ways of worship. None of this is surprising. It might not be par for the course, where people come for the coffee, but running a successful congregation does not mean you've made yourself a religious icon.
Your notion that he is a fringe heretic who gets away with his madness because of a "cult of personality" is just bizarre.
-Jester
(Edit, for Mav: This is the end of the road for me on this mini-thread with Kandrathe, promise. It's too tempting to just degenerate into purest sarcasm, and that wouldn't help matters.)