01-11-2008, 07:42 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-11-2008, 07:48 PM by oldmandennis.)
I didn't think the problem generally was at SH, I thought it was at IB. SH isn't much of a defensive stronghold for the horde - if you allies can't at least run past and get to SF, then they have bigger problems.
The problem is IB is actually defensible at this point. If 30 allies ride down from SF, probably about 10 are going to go for the captain, and 2-3 for the tower. The remaining 18 run into about 10 defenders and 4-6 NPC's at IB GY. If the defenders have healers, they can start to drag the fight out and get reinforcements. Unless the allies were moving very fast on the captain and can get those 10ish people back, that will turn the tide at the GY. Now the defenders can quickly move to retake their tower and save their captain - and the allies are ressing in a disorganized mess up at SP. Half of the horde defense goes to the backfield and plays hide and go seek with ally rogues, the rest continue to hold IB as people come drifting in. The horde have a pretty slow go of it the rest of the way with so many allies back at SP, but there is a pretty good chance the allies get nearly shut out doing this.
This isn't the way that all games go, obviously. But with the way the map is currently set up, it is a likely outcome. The problem is that wins of this nature leave the allies with nothing except a mark - and AV marks are relatively useless. If you are solo queuing looking for honor, it isn't really a boycott. It's just a rational use of your time.
The other problem is that once the horde on your BG have generally started doing this strategy, it is the optimal way to play the game. The game runs a bit longer, but both offense and defense get plenty of HK's, and nearly the maximal amount of bonus honor. The longer your queue, the more you want to squeeze every point out of your game, the less honor you leave on the table for the allies, the less they queue, which goes around and makes your queue longer. Even when the map was balanced against the horde, you could still count on taking SH/IW/Balindaeutenants pretty much every game, and come away with pretty good honor/hour. Even as you QQ, it was still rational to queue (QQ in your Q?). In the BG's where they get shut out, it's not rational (or fun) for allies to queue.
Incidentally I think that the map is still pretty balanced. Its just that the allies have to be _slightly_ organized if the horde are putting up a noticeable defense. Either hit the captain like a ton of bricks with at least 20 people and then all move together to the GY, or zerg the GY first and send 5 people back after it has been tapped. But "slightly organized" doesn't fit with a BG where you can't join as a group. IB is stronger then SH for sure, but the bridge is a lot stronger then the joke of a horde base.
Luckily, Nightfall US doesn't have this problem. The horde aren't aggressive enough on defense to reliably shut out the allies. I think most haven't figured out that they get bonus honor for Galv/towers surviving.
Av's real problem has never been balance (which is close enough), for all the QQing. The problem they are still searching for the answer to is how to create an epic battle that will end in a reasonable amount of time, and how to motivate and reward players for aggressively taking part in both offense and defense. Blue posts indicate that they are going to take another crack at that magic formula, probably before WotLK.
The problem is IB is actually defensible at this point. If 30 allies ride down from SF, probably about 10 are going to go for the captain, and 2-3 for the tower. The remaining 18 run into about 10 defenders and 4-6 NPC's at IB GY. If the defenders have healers, they can start to drag the fight out and get reinforcements. Unless the allies were moving very fast on the captain and can get those 10ish people back, that will turn the tide at the GY. Now the defenders can quickly move to retake their tower and save their captain - and the allies are ressing in a disorganized mess up at SP. Half of the horde defense goes to the backfield and plays hide and go seek with ally rogues, the rest continue to hold IB as people come drifting in. The horde have a pretty slow go of it the rest of the way with so many allies back at SP, but there is a pretty good chance the allies get nearly shut out doing this.
This isn't the way that all games go, obviously. But with the way the map is currently set up, it is a likely outcome. The problem is that wins of this nature leave the allies with nothing except a mark - and AV marks are relatively useless. If you are solo queuing looking for honor, it isn't really a boycott. It's just a rational use of your time.
The other problem is that once the horde on your BG have generally started doing this strategy, it is the optimal way to play the game. The game runs a bit longer, but both offense and defense get plenty of HK's, and nearly the maximal amount of bonus honor. The longer your queue, the more you want to squeeze every point out of your game, the less honor you leave on the table for the allies, the less they queue, which goes around and makes your queue longer. Even when the map was balanced against the horde, you could still count on taking SH/IW/Balindaeutenants pretty much every game, and come away with pretty good honor/hour. Even as you QQ, it was still rational to queue (QQ in your Q?). In the BG's where they get shut out, it's not rational (or fun) for allies to queue.
Incidentally I think that the map is still pretty balanced. Its just that the allies have to be _slightly_ organized if the horde are putting up a noticeable defense. Either hit the captain like a ton of bricks with at least 20 people and then all move together to the GY, or zerg the GY first and send 5 people back after it has been tapped. But "slightly organized" doesn't fit with a BG where you can't join as a group. IB is stronger then SH for sure, but the bridge is a lot stronger then the joke of a horde base.
Luckily, Nightfall US doesn't have this problem. The horde aren't aggressive enough on defense to reliably shut out the allies. I think most haven't figured out that they get bonus honor for Galv/towers surviving.
Av's real problem has never been balance (which is close enough), for all the QQing. The problem they are still searching for the answer to is how to create an epic battle that will end in a reasonable amount of time, and how to motivate and reward players for aggressively taking part in both offense and defense. Blue posts indicate that they are going to take another crack at that magic formula, probably before WotLK.