How much will taxpayers shoulder?

[Jester]

Hardly. They also make much of the parts (electronic and otherwise) used in American and European products, you know.

What I mean to say is that the relevant figures are agglomerated, not just "well, what do you see in your daily life"? There's a lot I don't see in my daily life that's incredibly relevant to the economy, and I lot I do see that isn't. Asking people how much "made in China" they see is an appeal to their prejudices over their reason.

That's a rather strong statement, but I'm sure you can show some proper references to it.

What, that the state of the Chinese Yuan vs. the US dollar is depressing US exports to China, and inflating US imports from China? If that isn't obvious to you, then I'm not sure why we are having a discussion. That's day one macroeconomics.

Which is all the difference that matters. Being able to produce much in absolute numbers while needing even more doesn't make things easier. It's the shortage that counts.

No, it really isn't. You have made a series of bold, unfounded, and wrong statements in this thread, notably along the lines that the US is no longer a producing nation, and that it doesn't have a lot in the way of exports that people want. Neither of those things is even close to true. What is true is that the US is not a NET exporter. However, neither is much of the developed world. This is a perfectly normal consequence of economic theory: rich countries consume more because they have more wealth to consume with, whereas developing countries consume less because they have less wealth. Not surprising, and something that will go away as their respective currencies adjust, *unless* one country forces them not to, as China is doing.

You should try selling that desire_and_ability_of_the_American_consumer_to_consume phrase to some Republican PR commitee in the USA:)

I have no idea what you mean by this. All I'm saying is that people who have money and want stuff will, in a free market, spend their money on stuff. People who have less money will make that stuff for them, because they want money.

Do you really think it would be a good idea, to have all Chinese living like Americans and Europeans do right now? With their numbers, they are causing enough environmental damage as it is.

No, it wouldn't be. But is the alternative that the Chinese population lives under the boot of their government, unable to improve their quality of life except in the slow drip allowed to them? Other countries do not suffer under this kind of restriction. Why should China? Surely they can enjoy some small increase in wealth (not enough to bring them to the American standard of living by a country mile) in a green way?

-Jester