A terrible, terrible tragedy.

[Occhidiangela]

And, I would think, this whole issue would speak only as to whether a state of the union has the right to seccede, under the strong interpretation that *anything* not explicitly earmarked for the feds is the right of the states. This power would not devolve to individual citizens in any case.

-Jester

Why has "the right of rebellion" been conflated with a societal insurance policy against the rise of tyrants here?

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Consider the necessity to safeguard {freedom} the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. That is the language I swore, that the Congressmen and Senators all swear, and in the oath of office of the President, and his cabinet officers. That language is in the Constitution, the requirement for an oath

From Article II:

Before he enter on the execution of his office, he shall take the following oath or affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

See also the oath of office of a Senator:

Upon taking office, Senators-elect must swear or affirm that they will "support and defend the Constitution." The president of the Senate or a surrogate administers the oath to newly elected or re-elected Senators. The oath is required by the Constitution; the wording is prescribed by law.

I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God

http://www.senate.gov/reference/reference_...ts/Oath_vrd.htm

The second amendment is parsimonious with language, for sure, but there is, as you otherwise note, quite a bit behind it. The South's right to secede, or so many of them saw it, was identical to the original right of secession from England enacted by the Colonies versus King George. That a war was fought over it, and one side won or lost, does not change the principle involved. It only shows that might makes right, and that blood and iron draw borders.

It also points out, as Ben Franklin was heard to quip one fine day, that

Force s.h.i.t.s on Reason's back.

Tyrants tend to use force to compel obedience. Note the strong reaction to AG Janet Reno's move on the Branch Davidians in some libertarian and conservative circles. It is harder, but more Constitutionally correct, to undertake the more lengthy process of legislation and consensus building than merely say "do it because I said so." That expected norm is still causing GW Bush a lot of political trouble, thanks to his penchant for the "do it because I said so" strand of behavior.

The idea of defending the Constitution against enemies domestic includes, among other things, shooting the bastards when you catch them in the act.

I edited to clear a few things up and to reorganize the links.

Another edit:

I am trying to see how the militia arming themselves against a tyrant who breaches the Constitution is guilty of treason. Said tyrant would be, de facto, an enemy, domestic, and logically required to resign or make war against himself, or in Hillary's case, herself. :wacko:

Section 3. Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying war against them, or in adhering to their enemies, giving them aid and comfort. No person shall be convicted of treason unless on the testimony of two witnesses to the same overt act, or on confession in open court.

The Congress shall have power to declare the punishment of treason, but no attainder of treason shall work corruption of blood, or forfeiture except during the life of the person attainted.

Occhi