10-21-2006, 05:19 PM
Some of the posters here are clearly guilded with well-motivated and even-tempered people that make most guild runs very smooth
I've never had any luck in finding such a guild. I find that most raid guilds I've tried have had a substantial minority of lazy quarrelsome and/or greedy people that drag the others down to their level. Priests that don't buff in the hope that some other priest will buff their group for them. Shamans that usually afk and make a coffee after a wipe. Warriors and Rogues that guildquit if they don't win that special weapon then beg to be allowed back in the next day.
Guilds have a tradition of being communities, bunches of people trying to build friendships. The expectation is that guild leaders should show sensitivity and understanding to the various foibles and human failings of the members
OK so here's my point: why not construct a guild first and foremost as a team (like a soccer team) rather than as a community?
So my basic plan is to have a number of spots available and pick the best people to fil them. Based on performance
Suppose we want 6 tanks for a 40 man raid. The guild would have a figure of 9 tanks as the ideal roster, that allows us to field 6 tanks when some are offline. But at the beginning of each month we accept all tank applicants and spend the month weeding them out based on how well they do. At the end of the month we're down to the 9. Any tanks who didn't make the cut are not eligible to apply again for a month
Each month we start with 9 tanks and recruit every tank who applies who has a chance of making the level required (eg no green-geared tanks if we're in Naxx). We then spend the month paring down the numbers until we're back down to 9 at the end of the month
One important idea is to be very forgiving about people we reject. People's feelings get hurt if they're gkicked for not being good enough, we shouldn't worry what they say on the forums after
"Performance" is a broad term and for me covers a lot of factors. It's essentially about improving the raid because of your presence. Someone who plays really well and tops the dps meters but drags us into a half hour argument about loot is performing poorly because we would have got more done had they not been there
How performance is measured is something that would be a work in progress undertaken by the members of that raid role, with some supervision from the top.
Note too that I say "tanks" not "warriors", "raid role" not "class". Doing it this way offers great scope for hybrids and off-specs. Got an epic Voidwalker and want a tank spot as a Warlock? Fine, come on in, but prove it works better than our 10th best Warrior/Feral Druid
DKP is an issue. We don't want someone coming in, being crap all the time, and walking out with 10 epics after their first month. I would like to use DKP as a valve to control recruitment applications. Basically if we're successful and everyone wants to join us then no DKP for your first month (in other words you have to make the cut at least once to get any loot whatsoever). While building up we'll probably set it to no DKP earned for your first week
Raid spots and loot priorities are determined by pecking order so far this month. If you're our top healer you get first dibs on what you need to keep you top
I think it could work out to be a very exciting and engaging process. It's bound to create some whining but then if negativity in the raid is a factor in rating people's performance I think that would dampen people's inclination to be disruptive
I'm thinking of rolling a new character on a fresh realm in BC and trying it out. What I need from this board now is people's opinions on whether you would consider joining such a guild or better still advice from anyone who has tried this out. If everyone who posts here thinks no one in their right mind would join such a guild I'll cancel the idea. But in the aftermath of yet another raid where the same 3 people out of 10 ressers do all the ressing, the same old people are outraged by the way we hand out loot as they are every time, the usual suspects are afk without saying anything I feel for the sake of those who come with potions and whipperroots, who pay attention and who read up on bosses in advance it would be fabulous to do something for the guys who cause you to succeed
I've never had any luck in finding such a guild. I find that most raid guilds I've tried have had a substantial minority of lazy quarrelsome and/or greedy people that drag the others down to their level. Priests that don't buff in the hope that some other priest will buff their group for them. Shamans that usually afk and make a coffee after a wipe. Warriors and Rogues that guildquit if they don't win that special weapon then beg to be allowed back in the next day.
Guilds have a tradition of being communities, bunches of people trying to build friendships. The expectation is that guild leaders should show sensitivity and understanding to the various foibles and human failings of the members
OK so here's my point: why not construct a guild first and foremost as a team (like a soccer team) rather than as a community?
So my basic plan is to have a number of spots available and pick the best people to fil them. Based on performance
Suppose we want 6 tanks for a 40 man raid. The guild would have a figure of 9 tanks as the ideal roster, that allows us to field 6 tanks when some are offline. But at the beginning of each month we accept all tank applicants and spend the month weeding them out based on how well they do. At the end of the month we're down to the 9. Any tanks who didn't make the cut are not eligible to apply again for a month
Each month we start with 9 tanks and recruit every tank who applies who has a chance of making the level required (eg no green-geared tanks if we're in Naxx). We then spend the month paring down the numbers until we're back down to 9 at the end of the month
One important idea is to be very forgiving about people we reject. People's feelings get hurt if they're gkicked for not being good enough, we shouldn't worry what they say on the forums after
"Performance" is a broad term and for me covers a lot of factors. It's essentially about improving the raid because of your presence. Someone who plays really well and tops the dps meters but drags us into a half hour argument about loot is performing poorly because we would have got more done had they not been there
How performance is measured is something that would be a work in progress undertaken by the members of that raid role, with some supervision from the top.
Note too that I say "tanks" not "warriors", "raid role" not "class". Doing it this way offers great scope for hybrids and off-specs. Got an epic Voidwalker and want a tank spot as a Warlock? Fine, come on in, but prove it works better than our 10th best Warrior/Feral Druid
DKP is an issue. We don't want someone coming in, being crap all the time, and walking out with 10 epics after their first month. I would like to use DKP as a valve to control recruitment applications. Basically if we're successful and everyone wants to join us then no DKP for your first month (in other words you have to make the cut at least once to get any loot whatsoever). While building up we'll probably set it to no DKP earned for your first week
Raid spots and loot priorities are determined by pecking order so far this month. If you're our top healer you get first dibs on what you need to keep you top
I think it could work out to be a very exciting and engaging process. It's bound to create some whining but then if negativity in the raid is a factor in rating people's performance I think that would dampen people's inclination to be disruptive
I'm thinking of rolling a new character on a fresh realm in BC and trying it out. What I need from this board now is people's opinions on whether you would consider joining such a guild or better still advice from anyone who has tried this out. If everyone who posts here thinks no one in their right mind would join such a guild I'll cancel the idea. But in the aftermath of yet another raid where the same 3 people out of 10 ressers do all the ressing, the same old people are outraged by the way we hand out loot as they are every time, the usual suspects are afk without saying anything I feel for the sake of those who come with potions and whipperroots, who pay attention and who read up on bosses in advance it would be fabulous to do something for the guys who cause you to succeed