Talk about obnoxious...
Occhidiangela,Apr 19 2006, 11:46 AM Wrote:Using Jester's framework -- the requirement to go back an arbitrary number of centuries to get "the true name" of the land and its ex post facto application to its denizens -- I suppose Russia must renounce its name, once again call itself the Golden Horde, and now call themselves Hordians. :P
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I'm not quite sure exactly what you're considering to be my "framework" here. All I'm saying is that, acknowledging that every country is a mad mixture of founders, immigrants, conquerors, travellers, and any other group that might happen by, nobody should claim too strongly their rights to keep other people out of their countries. It is almost invariably the case that someone from everyone's ancestry forced their way into wherever it is they now live. Again, let's grant the liberties that our ancestors took by force. The alternative is continued force, which I think is a poor idea.

If you were to apply "my framework" to Russia, you certainly wouldn't end up with the Golden Horde, which was, historically speaking, quite a recent phenomenon. You'd end up with some Turkic steppe peoples, and whatever it was they called the land.

I'd appreciate it if you didn't put words in my mouth. Thanks.

-Jester
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Messages In This Thread
Talk about obnoxious... - by Ashock - 04-07-2006, 07:09 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-07-2006, 07:26 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by jahcs - 04-07-2006, 07:48 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Taem - 04-07-2006, 08:38 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by jahcs - 04-07-2006, 09:42 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Drasca - 04-07-2006, 10:44 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-07-2006, 11:12 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Drasca - 04-08-2006, 02:27 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Guest - 04-08-2006, 05:49 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Guest - 04-08-2006, 05:55 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by GenericKen - 04-08-2006, 08:20 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-08-2006, 08:40 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Munkay - 04-08-2006, 11:10 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Guest - 04-08-2006, 11:17 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Guest - 04-08-2006, 11:19 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Drasca - 04-09-2006, 12:36 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Guest - 04-09-2006, 05:37 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Rinnhart - 04-09-2006, 10:54 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Rhydderch Hael - 04-09-2006, 04:59 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Drasca - 04-09-2006, 06:44 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-10-2006, 12:44 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Guest - 04-10-2006, 02:57 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Alram - 04-10-2006, 04:56 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-10-2006, 11:22 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by jahcs - 04-10-2006, 03:33 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-10-2006, 04:08 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by jahcs - 04-10-2006, 04:10 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Alram - 04-10-2006, 04:36 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-10-2006, 05:01 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by ShadowHM - 04-10-2006, 05:17 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Alram - 04-10-2006, 05:26 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Guest - 04-10-2006, 07:50 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-10-2006, 08:31 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-10-2006, 08:35 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-10-2006, 08:43 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Guest - 04-10-2006, 08:46 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-10-2006, 09:00 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Guest - 04-10-2006, 09:18 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-10-2006, 09:30 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by ShadowHM - 04-10-2006, 10:35 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by jahcs - 04-10-2006, 10:59 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Guest - 04-10-2006, 11:05 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-11-2006, 02:28 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by jahcs - 04-11-2006, 03:44 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-11-2006, 04:08 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Guest - 04-11-2006, 04:17 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Alram - 04-11-2006, 04:26 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Ashock - 04-11-2006, 05:10 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Jester - 04-11-2006, 05:20 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-11-2006, 06:08 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by jahcs - 04-11-2006, 06:09 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-11-2006, 06:40 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by ShadowHM - 04-11-2006, 07:09 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-11-2006, 07:28 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by ShadowHM - 04-11-2006, 08:02 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Alram - 04-11-2006, 08:34 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-11-2006, 08:50 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by ShadowHM - 04-11-2006, 09:48 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Guest - 04-11-2006, 10:54 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Chaerophon - 04-12-2006, 01:41 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Alram - 04-12-2006, 02:03 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-12-2006, 02:23 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Guest - 04-12-2006, 02:40 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Jester - 04-12-2006, 02:40 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Jester - 04-12-2006, 02:43 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Guest - 04-12-2006, 02:47 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Lissa - 04-12-2006, 02:54 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by --Pete - 04-12-2006, 05:16 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Griselda - 04-12-2006, 06:03 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by SwissMercenary - 04-12-2006, 07:17 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Jester - 04-12-2006, 07:20 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-12-2006, 11:24 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-12-2006, 11:55 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by ShadowHM - 04-12-2006, 12:08 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-12-2006, 01:09 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Jester - 04-12-2006, 02:55 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-12-2006, 03:18 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Jester - 04-12-2006, 06:42 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Jim - 04-12-2006, 10:29 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Doc - 04-13-2006, 01:19 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Munkay - 04-13-2006, 03:44 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by --Pete - 04-13-2006, 05:43 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by ShadowHM - 04-13-2006, 11:27 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-13-2006, 02:03 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Chaerophon - 04-13-2006, 03:21 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by jahcs - 04-13-2006, 04:24 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Jester - 04-13-2006, 04:45 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-13-2006, 04:59 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Chaerophon - 04-13-2006, 05:11 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-13-2006, 05:33 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Chaerophon - 04-13-2006, 05:52 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-13-2006, 06:41 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Chaerophon - 04-13-2006, 06:47 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-13-2006, 07:11 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by GriffonSpade - 04-14-2006, 02:40 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-15-2006, 03:53 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by GriffonSpade - 04-15-2006, 05:00 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by ShadowHM - 04-17-2006, 02:43 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Archon_Wing - 04-18-2006, 12:25 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-18-2006, 01:41 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by ShadowHM - 04-18-2006, 02:44 AM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-18-2006, 07:49 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by ShadowHM - 04-18-2006, 08:51 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-19-2006, 02:56 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Chaerophon - 04-19-2006, 03:59 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-19-2006, 05:53 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Rhydderch Hael - 04-19-2006, 06:34 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-19-2006, 06:46 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by --Pete - 04-19-2006, 07:11 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Jester - 04-19-2006, 07:32 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-19-2006, 08:09 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Ashock - 04-20-2006, 06:11 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-20-2006, 06:34 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Jester - 04-20-2006, 06:42 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-20-2006, 07:03 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Taem - 04-21-2006, 11:52 PM
Talk about obnoxious... - by Occhidiangela - 04-22-2006, 03:47 AM

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