If You Were a Casual Gamer...

[Jarulf]

Very nice thread. First off, I do consider myself a casual player and in this case, I believe I am THE casual player. I am sure there are many others too though.

Some have tried to think about what a casual player is, here is my own view (how I regard myself). First off, I don't play a lot and often. Perhaps I don't play for a week or two at times. When I do play, it might be just that half hour or one hour in the evening to relax a bit. Of course, sometimes I do decide to actually play and spend a whole day.

I don't power level. I take my time, get involved in the story and so on. Why? I guess almost everyone do, but since I only ever will probably play 1 or two chars per faction to higher levels, that character is my ONLY mean to experience much of the game, its story, areas and so on. Hence I play "slow". It does not mean I can't pick up skill or learn to play complicated characters, but I will probably not learn all the fines and tactics of the game in detail, although I tend to learn the character class I play quite well after a while.

Due to the time limits and similar, I will end up playing either solo or party randomly for short periods. I might have to redo even smaller dungeons (not instances, I mean the small ones all over) since the 1 hour I played, was with someone not so good and/or I didn't have the time to reach even to the end of that small grotto. In addition, I personally am the type whole like to do ALL quests, even the ones that are for level 5 chars when I am level 30 if I come across it.

That is one type of casual player to me. This still mean that I want to run instances and group with others (and learn to group well, and probably will in the end). If I ever get to level 60, I will most definitely be able to instance and raid (that is what one call it right?) with others and be good at it and have the possibility. Actually, I never got to play a single instance in the beta (I played very little the last fall of the beta) and only once entered the Veiling Caverns instance part solo and killed a few monsters, then had to leave.


Anyway, back to the classes. I am at heart a warrior, hence I played a warrior in the beta to level 35 or so. I liked it, I managed (solo even) for the most part. I relied a lot on fishing/cooking for healing to cut down on down time and also had herbalism/alchemy (at that time, one could almost get all professions). I don't like the "tanking" part though since I like offensive warriors so I don't think I would like or be good at warrior in groups.

I played a NE priest to level 15 or so and actually liked it. Sure, mostly solo, but also partied a bit. I think I managed quite well even offensively. I particularly like the prospect of being able to group well and when reaching higher levels do more "runs" and such as opposed to go solo. I don't think a slower killing in itself (solo) would be a problem since I can go slow anyway. No idea if it is hard to play a healer well, but I definitely think I could learn that, even playing not so much other classes to understand them.

Paladins are to me just a variant warrior with built in healing (yeah, I know, simplifying and yes, I talk based on limited playing of all characters in beta only at low levels).

Rogues seems to me as warriors with sneaking abilities. Played one at the very start. However, from what people have written, they seems slightly like micro management in fighting, having to sneak up behind and all that. I don't have that patience or like having to go through it. Otherwise I think Rogues would be great. It is still on my list though as the warrior to play.

Druids seems very nice and fun. Only worry is how it would do when I eventually reach high levels and want to group more. Seems I get to play a little of everything with this class which can be good. NE have them too which is a bonus since I want a NE.

I don't think I would personally have the patience to play warlock or hunter with the pets, I like it "simple". Not to say it would not suit a casual player, but I simply have not fallen for them.

Shamans to me seems like a type of warriors. Again, I think I would prefer actually fighting over tossing around totems. You see I have some strange feelings on how each class is to play which might not be correct, but it is more about how I would find them suit my playing style.

Mages might be cool but I have for some reason never felt like trying it out. In beta I got the idea they were somewhat fragile, had to drink all the time and basically was all about tossing missile spells.

Other classes? No idea (did I even miss any?)

As for races, I think I have been convinced to go for Undead instead of Orc for the Horde. That means I will probably start out with a NE and a Undead. Classes looking at are Priest, Druid and Rogue. Rogues seems to deal lots of damage, which I like, but I fear I won't find the play style suit me, a warrior (by warrior I mean me playing the "warrior char" should not sneak and be cautious, I can use my Priest for not doing frontal charges) should go for it in direct melee.

This seems to me indicate I should go for a NE Druid and a UD Priest!! Hmm, might be it.

Profession? I always thought a Priest would do well with tailoring, but from what I read, it is a useless skill in many aspects, right? I mean from a casual player and so on. I never really liked it when they switched it the "max 2 professions" in the beta. My experience (up to level 35 warrior) was that smithing never really cut it, I very often had better or almost as good gear from quests or shops. Usually, when I got to that nice weapon or armour, I had already got a similar one from some other place. Alchemy was nice for my warrior and in general, so I might go Herbalism/Alchemy on one of the chars. Never tried much engineering (made bombs mostly) but seems fun. But is mining enough for it? OR do one need a lot of material from other professions? I got that impression.

From the posts, it seems Herb/Alch would be nice for my Druid. Some suggested it for the Priest too. Since they are different factions, I can’t send stuff between them so it won’t matter they are the same. Or would Engineering be good for the Priest? Hmm, not sure.

In any case, at least I have got a lot of information and tips out of this thread, great, I hope other casual players will too and even newbies, I think it is a good thread for those too. Perhaps it should be considered as a sticky really!!

[Wingx]

This is the kind of discussion I was/am looking for - since I find myself at the position of a casual player, from time to time.

I see myself as a casual player. My definition of casual player is that he/she doesn't have as much time to play.

Said that, and my limited time of playing WoW for around three months, rogue is a good class to play: (I played two rogues to around level 35)

1. For people who are time-poor, it takes them months to get to high-end game, and that's the time when rogues find their major problem - the lack of usefulness in group raid. Chances are, most casual players may never reach level 40-60.

2. Rogues are like what Jarulf said can kill by micromanaging, but due to their formidable damage output, they do great without any micromanaging - plain killing machine, that's the feeling I have about rogues.

3. Rogues' sneaking abilities come in handy when you want to finish certain quests but can only play for another 20 minutes - it offers a quicker way to settle around 10% quests.

4. It costs you time when you die, and rogues don't die as often as warriors or priests - rogues have a range of ways to escape from a battle.

Other than rogue, I heard hunters are good for casual players since they have ability to run 30% faster at every early stage...

The only thing bothers me is about instances. Most instances require players to commit a large chunk of time - say, 3 hours. For many people more than 2 hours is just not affordable, and this blocks those people from experiencing instances.

[Rinnhart]

This statement bothers the hell out of me. So let me hop up on my high horse and ride a bit here.

First of all, you're implying that anyone who has died in PvE combat has done something stupid. This is flat wrong. A poor pull by anyone in your party can get you killed. Not knowing respawn timers can get you killed. Lag can get you killed. Many, many things can happen in this game that can get you killed. Not all of them require you to do something 'stupid'.

I've died many times in Molten Core. I never felt I did anything 'stupid' when I did. It's a hard place, and it's hard to organize 40 players and get them working together. If you think leading a group into MC and doing well is easy, more power to you --- you are a god in this game.

One more thing: 'stupid' is a loaded word. It insults people. If you have a point you're trying to make you rarely get people to listen if you start by insulting them.

-DC
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I didn't use "stupid" first in this discussion.

Denotative meaning over connotative, if you must.

Inexperience is merely a shade of grey upon the stupid scale. Poor pulling, a lack of understanding in regards to a particular area's unique mechanics, not being prepared for the inevitable lag- varying levels of stupid.

Does that mitigate the fact that they're all eventually avoidable?

Does that mean people won't make them time and time again?

Does that make any of them any less stupid?

Am I claiming that I do not make exceptionally stupid mistakes?

No.

[DarkCrown]

I see myself as a casual player. My definition of casual player is that he/she doesn't have as much time to play.

There are two kinds of gamers in the world. There are casual gamers and there are hardcore gamers. The casual gamers are the ones who play less than you do, while the hardcore gamers are the ones who play more.

:)


-DC

[Xanthix]

There are two kinds of gamers in the world. There are casual gamers and there are hardcore gamers. The casual gamers are the ones who play less than you do, while the hardcore gamers are the ones who play more.
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Is that kind of like how everyone who drives slower than you is an idiot and everyone who drives faster than you is a maniac? :)

[Dezz]

I think one area where Alliance has it easier is geography. There is a significant "easy mode" factor to having your first contested zone be basically yours. The Horde's first contested zone choices are Ashenvale, Stonetalon, Hillsbrad, and 1k Needles, all of which have Alliance towns and quests. Alliance has the option of Duskwood and the Wetlands, both of which are free of Horde towns (much less flightpoints) and geographically buffered by higher level zones from all Horde intrusion.

Simply put, what are the chances of a level 25 Alliance member being in any of the Horde's first contested zones? What are the chances of a level 25 Horde getting to Duskwood or the Wetlands?

And anyone who gives me the "Elven Death March" speech has obviously never tried to get a level 6 undead priest trained in staves. :P

[Artega]

He's referring to my post, not yours.

I was referring to solo PvE. It's VERY difficult to die in solo PvE combat if you're even the slightest bit cautious, and I truly fail to see how a Paladin can die in solo PvE combat without having done something supremely stupid; they have the ability to heal, wear plate armor, bubble up, and the ability to instantly kill most snares and roots via either Blessing of Freedom or (more commonly) Cleanse. Then again, Level 18 isn't the same as Level 60, but I've seen Paladins solo things that other classes can't.

[KiloVictor]

Inexperience is merely a shade of grey upon the stupid scale.
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My rule is that he first time something goes wrong, it's ignorance. Any subsequent occurrences of the same mistake must be ascribed to stupidity.

I find that most times I die, it's because I did something stupid. :)

Kv

[Gregorius]

This seems to me indicate I should go for a NE Druid and a UD Priest!! Hmm, might be it.
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As somebody who has a mid-level Druid, I think I'll play devil's advocate for just a moment. The Druid is an awesome class for soloing (though I only use cat when fighting mobs lower than my level) with many options. However, everybody's talking about how Priests can always find a group. There's a good reason for this: there is a sickening shortage of healers! Chances are that 90% of the groups you join you'll be called upon to take up the task of making sure nobody dies. I've performed a tanking role three times out of my numerous groupings: Gathering Miner's Packs in Loch Modan, doing Thistlenettle's quests in the non-instanced portion of the Deadmines, and in Blackfathom Deeps (where we had three priests). As far as I can tell, you get relegated to support duties if your character has any abilities to heal others.

If you're a warrior fan I would encourage you to play one. Warriors have their problems but I still stand by my earlier comments: do what you enjoy. Find out what you have to then make your own best choice.

Dezz, I don't think Thalanaar counts as a town. I don't have any flight paths that connect to it. And technically, the area is flagged as "Feralas." But I *kind of* get what you're saying.

[Rinnhart]

He's referring to my post, not yours.

Clarify the "he's" and the "yours". He quoted and replied to my post. If I'm the "He's and DC's the "yours" then you're correct.

I was referring to solo PvE.

So was I.

It's VERY difficult to die in solo PvE combat if you're even the slightest bit cautious, and I truly fail to see how a Paladin can die in solo PvE combat without having done something supremely stupid; they have the ability to heal,

Can't heal while moving, healing extends how far the mob will chase you.

wear plate armor, bubble up,

Behold, our only advantages.

and the ability to instantly kill most snares and roots via either Blessing of Freedom or (more commonly) Cleanse.

Applies to a remarkable minority of PvE situations as neither spell mitigates daze, and lacking a snare, root, fast casting speed boost, the ability to dispell snares and roots means little in how well we can run away. Really it means we're slightly better equipped to close short distances against opponents who aren't attempting to flee.

Then again, Level 18 isn't the same as Level 60, but I've seen Paladins solo things that other classes can't.
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A level 20 paladin does significantly more damage, on a percentage basis, than a level 60. A level 60 paladin does nothing that an equal level rogue or hunter can't do, and do much faster.

[Mavfin]

That's it.  Hell just froze over.

-Bolty
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ROFL! Better get out the heaters! Diablo's going to be MAD! :shuriken:

[Mavfin]

Clarify the "he's" and the "yours". He quoted and replied to my post. If I'm the "He's and DC's the "yours" then you're correct.
So was I.
Can't heal while moving, healing extends how far the mob will chase you.
Behold, our only advantages.
Applies to a remarkable minority of PvE situations as neither spell mitigates daze, and lacking a snare, root, fast casting speed boost, the ability to dispell snares and roots means little in how well we can run away. Really it means we're slightly better equipped to close short distances against opponents who aren't attempting to flee.
A level 20 paladin does significantly more damage, on a percentage basis, than a level 60. A level 60 paladin does nothing that an equal level rogue or hunter can't do, and do much faster.
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With my warrior, I die very rarely, and have since I learned when to run, around lvl 10 or 15. (she's lvl 50 now). There are basically two reasons for this, and they're really the same reasons pallies don't die much either. 5K armor, 3K life at 50 in my current config. If I run when I realize it has gone bad, I'll usually make it out, unless other adds show up, or I run smack into a devilsaur or something else dumb. Even with Daze, they generally can't hit me *enough* to kill me if I ran when I should have.

Unless I'm down to less then 20% and have 3 (hard-hitting or caster) mobs on me, I can run and make it out past their leashes. Nifty Stopwatch is handy at this point, too.

As far as for the casual gamer? Why not a warrior. As long as you learn when to run, and how to pull, which the casual gamer *will* learn for any class he plays, a warrior is very survivable, and killing speed isn't bad, and at least as good as a pally. The big diff is the healing.

As far as any class, all the classes are playable by the 'casual gamer'. However, the casual gamer won't be able to do the things with them that the 'non-casual gamer' will at the same levels.

And, if you're posting in this thread, at this forum......you may have to forfeit any claim of 'casual'. :P :P

Edit: Disclaimer: You may have to read this post realizing it was written by someone who actually solo-plays a Holy Priest and enjoys the challenge.

[Artega]

Edit: Disclaimer: You may have to read this post realizing it was written by someone who actually solo-plays a Holy Priest and enjoys the challenge.
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Queue Bender voice: He's a maaadman!

[Mavfin]

Queue Bender voice:  He's a maaadman!
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Heh. Nah, just Variant Scum

[nobbie]

After playing the Shaman class now, I have changed my mind and would play these 2 characters:

Horde: Orc Shaman (using a 1H-Axe/Shield), Herbalism/Alchemy
Alliance: Night Elf Druid (using a Staff), Herbalism/Alchemy

Both are strong, interesting solo classes and offer a bit of everything (Mage, Fighter, Healer) as hybrid classes while still being different regarding the hybrid implementation. The Shaman is more a blend of classes (Mage, Fighter, Healer) while the Druid can later better focus on any single role (Mage, Fighter, Healer) at a time. Herbalism/Alchemy fits both classes perfectly, and the potions combined with the buffs make top equipment much less necessary. Shamans as well as Druids are always welcome in (raid) parties because of their great flexibility.

[Concillian]

I think if it's someone who likes group situations/instances they should pick a warrior and learn how to play him in a group situation. It is my general observation by playing several calsses that the warrior is the single most important in a group situation. Any ONE member can ruin a group if you get really unlucky, but warriors are the single most able to cause a rough time in a group (at least that is my observation).

The solo-ability is not as good as a shaman or pally, and the mage has huge benefits in terms of travel with teleports, but nothing is more frustrating to someone with fairly limited blocks of times for instances to end up in a group just short of competant because the warrior doesn't have an adequate grasp of aggro control. Ruining the only 2-3 hour block of time you have that week. I've seen even warriors in their 40s who thought taunt was the primary means of holding aggro ("I can only taunt one at a time").

And for the same reason I think the best duo for getting through 60 is Shaman/Warrior. Shaman is a very good main assist and the warrior is obviously a great main tank. With that duo, you can effectively lock aggro in almost every situation, and you pretty much can't have a bad group.

Some will say that a healer is more vital to a group, but my experience is that if there is good aggro control healing is incredibly easy.

[Rinnhart]

I'd almost say warriors are bad choices for casual players. In addition to the reasons posted aboe, they're extremely item dependant, and in turn their groups rely upon their equipment. You can be the best warrior player in the world, you have bad gear you're still going to be a crappy tank.

Warrior I was partied with yesterday was the picture of that. Great guy, competent player- couldn't hold aggro over me and the hunter when push came to shove.

[Drasca]

you have bad gear you're still going to be a crappy tank.

Warrior I was partied with yesterday was the picture of that. Great guy, competent player- couldn't hold aggro over me and the hunter when push came to shove.
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Ok, two concepts here for tank. Damage sponge, and holding aggro.

With piss poor equip, a warrior cannot absorb as much damage. Honestly, regular equipment is 'good enough' until 40 man raid instances. At that point, only main tanks need to be concerned with equip.

But aggro control is everyone's job, and warrior's the primary hub. Warrior draws intial aggro, builds a bit, grabs aggro from every monster, and all other in the party hold off burst forms of aggro and start off slow. Equipment doesn't factor in. More damage, or special weapon procs are the only equip aggro contributers, and positioning, timing and order of skill use matter a lot more in terms of aggro control than equipment ever does.

I don't know what your party did or did not do, but your arguement is funk.

[Drasca]

Both are strong, interesting solo classes and offer a bit of everything (Mage, Fighter, Healer)

Nobbie, I wouldn't recommend warlock as a first character to try, but for a third character I'd suggest you try warlock for a few hours. Now that you're familiar with basic controls... having an imp as a buddy at level 2-3 is pretty fun.

Of the solo classes, warlock comes out one of the strongest at PvE overall. Once you understand how to redistribute damage and aggro between yourself and your pet, the Warlock & pet is an organism with self sustaining healing and superior mana regain abilities. Those are health funnel, life drain, life tap, mana drain, dark pact. All the while dishing out damage in form of dots, melee & DD spell attacks, and channeled spells.

Add a CC ability on top of that where you may continue to do damage while controlling the enemy, you have a very independent monster of a class.

All these skills are dangerous to use... but so rewarding.

[Rinnhart]

Ok, two concepts here for tank. Damage sponge, and holding aggro.

With piss poor equip, a warrior cannot absorb as much damage. Honestly, regular  equipment is 'good enough' until 40 man raid instances. At that point, only main tanks need to be concerned with equip.

But aggro control is everyone's job, and warrior's the primary hub. Warrior draws intial aggro, builds a bit, grabs aggro from every monster, and all other in the party hold off burst forms of aggro and start off slow. Equipment doesn't factor in. More damage, or special weapon procs are the only equip aggro contributers, and positioning, timing and order of skill use matter a lot more in terms of aggro control than equipment ever does.

I don't know what your party did or did not do, but your arguement is funk.
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Are you just attacking me to attack me? Preaching to the goddamn choir, Drasca.

The guy had sub-par gear for a 60. This is FACT. In the normal course of business, I, lordly aggro generating paladin that I am, consistently pulled hate. That means I was judging light, hitting command, and letting autoattack do it's business. AUTOATTACK.

Hunters, well yeah, hunters need to control their aggro.