Warlocks

[Lissa]

My Warlock Elleneor is nearing lvl 20, and so on the fly I decided to follow the road already travelled and recommended (At least for my first warlock).

Here is what I am planning now;

Destruction (31)
T1 Improved Shadow Bolt (5/5)
T2 Bane (5/5)
T3 Devastation (5/5)  Shadowburn (1/1)
T4 Intensity(2/2)  Improved Seering Pain (5/5)
T5 Pyroclasm (1/2)  Ruin (1/1)
T6 Emberstorm (5/5)
T7 Conflagrate (1/1)

Demonology (2)
T1 Improved Imp (2/3)

Affliction (16)
T1 Improved Corruption (5/5)
T2 Improved Life Tap (2/2)  Improved Drain Life (3/5)
T3 Improved COA (2/3) Amplify Curse (1/1) Fel Concentration (2/5)
T4 Nightfall (1/2)

Leaving 1 for Nightfall (2/2)  or when they fix Pyroclasm (2/2)

There are many Warlocks here with tons more experience than I, so whatever tips and pointers you might share would be appreciated.
[right][snapback]70727[/snapback][/right]

Ok, some notes on talents you have.

Improved CoA is not worth taking in all honesty. As you level you will use CoA less and less depending more on other curses like Shadows and Elements, especially since you plan to go down the Destruction tree, save the 2 points for else where.

Amplify Curse is only useful if you plan to go for Curse of Exhaustion. If you are not going to go for CoEx, skip Amplify and go with something else on the points.

As such, with these 3 points saved, I would put them towards Fel Concentration. Better to have 70% avoidance of interruption while draining than just a mere 28%.



If you want to get Conflagrate, you're going to have to take Improved Immolate. You cannot get Conflagrate without 5 points into Improved Immolate.

If you plan to group a lot, having Improved Searing Pain will cause problems. Searing Pain already has a high agro effect and having it crit more often (between Devestation and Improved Searing Pain) means you are going to get agro more often. If you combine in Curse of Elements, things will get silly quickly (you haven't seen the crazy crits as yet, but when you do, you'll be amazed at how quick you take agro, I've personally done 4k damage in 4 seconds by casting Curse of Elements followed by Immolate for 1.6k damage on the front load followed by 2.4k damage on the Conflagrate because of how negative resistance, Ruin, and criticals react).


I also think you're overlooking the biggest gem talent the Warlock gets and it comes at T1 in Demonology, that being Demonic Embrace. The loss of 5% Spirit is negligible to a Warlock because a Warlock depends on their health to regain mana. As such, having a higher Stamina through Demonic Embrace will also increase your Mana pool (along with your pet's health and giving you a breather when casting Hellfire, the highest damage AoE in the game with the best damage to mana ratio of any AoE).


Also, something to note for later in the game when you start running instances, due to the 8 debuff limit, Nightfall may be of limited use as your corruption and your drain life may get pushed off the mob by other players adding in debuffs as well. So while Nightfall is a good talent, be ready to see it's effect diminish as you get into the high end game.

[Zippyy]

When you (Zarathustra and Lissa) say Inferno, do you mean Immolate? I thought it was just a typo but since you're both referring to Inferno I think maybe I am confused. :wacko:

[Lissa]

When you (Zarathustra and Lissa) say Inferno, do you mean Immolate?  I thought it was just a typo but since you're both referring to Inferno I think maybe I am confused.  :wacko:
[right][snapback]71951[/snapback][/right]

No, you're right it's immolate....just call it inferno cause it seems better when combined with conflagrate... :P

[Drasca]

Zippy, you really underestimate Suppression. Maxed suppression effectively means you have a lot more fear, your afflic spells do more damage, and last longer.

Curse of Weakness you'll find not useful enough to amp. Its great for 'normal' mobs below your level, and sometimes PvP (when situation calls for it), but definitely not against elites.

Improve Drain soul is bugged--and why are you worried about mana regen? Warlocks do not mana regen. They lifetap halfway, then both eat and drink. If in dire battle, fear and do not cast damage doers (beyond a siphon life or CoA), and bandage up. Then life tap. Warlocks should have extremely little active downtime, in the order of Warriors.

Work on your First Aid, if you haven't already. Tailoring is no excuse. Bandages increase warlock effectiveness 2-3x.

If you're going to invest in Demonology beyond 5 points, stick them in Health funnel. Improved imp is marginal compared to the benefit of health funneling to your Voidwalker or other pet.

Btw: Since this is a Warlock thread...

There've been a number of stealth nerfs.

You may no longer pre-buff fear. Casting fear on monsters already feared by you will no longer reset fear counter. It only waste your cast. Howeer, casting on other people's feared targets will work.

Enslave demon has been nerfed. Banish will no longer reset its counter, and enslaved demons will generally not stay enslaved beyond the first 4 minute enslave. Secondary and tertiary enslaves won't work long, and repeated enslaves will be resisted or immune. Waste of shards beyond initial enslave.

Pet pathfinding has been improved. Pets will now jump off cliffs with you.

Dark pact has been fixed with enslaved creatures. You may now steal mana from your enslaved pets.

Many neutral mobs/npcs no longer auto-aggro your pet.

"Defensive" is still bugged when trying to help other side. Possibly an AoE issue. Set pets on passive whenever in question and able to pet-micro.

[Zippyy]

No, you're right it's immolate....just call it inferno cause it seems better when combined with conflagrate...  :P
[right][snapback]71979[/snapback][/right]

I wish warlocks did have the demon hunter's immolate spell. It would be neat to cast on tanks to help them keep group aggro. Oh well, just theorizing.

Is Inferno the name of the spell that summons an Infernal, as it was in WC3? Or did they name it Summon Infernal or some such?



Edit: typo

[Zarathustra]

When you (Zarathustra and Lissa) say Inferno, do you mean Immolate?  I thought it was just a typo but since you're both referring to Inferno I think maybe I am confused.  :wacko:
[right][snapback]71951[/snapback][/right]

Yes, I meant Immolate. Heh, I don't know where "inferno" came from.

[Zippyy]

You bring up a lot of good points. Yes, my only excuse for not taking up first aid was Tailoring. Yes, I don't run out of mana, ever, due to prolific use of Life Tap. That kind of throws a wrench in my talent build, since the final goal is to make it to dark pact and make use of your new, gigantic mana pool. Since you are correct and I never have mana problems, I am thinking of going destruction the next time I respec. It's been on the edge of my thoughts, but since affliction has served me well for this long, I've never been quite ballsy enough to switch.

Would you mind terribly much sharing your talent build, and a short description of each choice? Maybe a few high-level warlocks could do this, and we could keep this nice discussion going :)

[oldmandennis]

I wish warlocks did have the demon hunter's immolate spell.  It would be neat to cast on tanks to help them keep group aggro.  Oh well, just theorizing.

Edit: typo
[right][snapback]71995[/snapback][/right]

You mean like the Imp spell "fire shield"?

[Zippyy]

You mean like the Imp spell "fire shield"?
[right][snapback]72167[/snapback][/right]

Not really. The demon hunter's immolate did periodic damage to nearby enemies, just like the shaman's lightning shield. It was a short-range AoE dot, not like fire shield/thorns.

At least, I think that's what it did, I could be remembering wrong. :)

[playingtokrush]

You mean like the Imp spell "fire shield"?
[right][snapback]72167[/snapback][/right]

More like the Infernal's immolation (aura).

[TheDragoon]

Also, something to note for later in the game when you start running instances, due to the 8 debuff limit, Nightfall may be of limited use as your corruption and your drain life may get pushed off the mob by other players adding in debuffs as well. So while Nightfall is a good talent, be ready to see it's effect diminish as you get into the high end game.

I've been playing under the impression that the 8 debuff limit was something that Blizzard was looking into fixing (that is, increasing) in a future patch. However, I don't actually recall this being stated at any point. Am I just imagining something, or was there a basis of this in reality. :)

[oldmandennis]

I've been playing under the impression that the 8 debuff limit was something that Blizzard was looking into fixing (that is, increasing) in a future patch.  However, I don't actually recall this being stated at any point.  Am I just imagining something, or was there a basis of this in reality.  :)
[right][snapback]72202[/snapback][/right]

As I recall from reading Thotts automated blue post gatherer, they are looking into it which means they MAY change it. I wouldn't count on it anytime soon, it would take major rebalancing to accomplish.

[TheDragoon]

Well, the future is more bleak than I had suspected, then.

It's unfortunate that there's a class that Blizzard touts as the "debuff class" when they've artificially limited its abilities. I mean, there's already the restriction of only one curse per Warlock, which seems like the design decision. As such, I don't see how it would really require rebalancing since it seems that they HAVE looked at it from a balancing perspective and added restrictions. It seems mostly a UI/programming restriction, to me, rather than a balance issue. If it is a balance issue, it's a poor way to implement it, in my opinion. However, I wouldn't put that past Blizzard.

Anyway, thanks for the post. :)

[oldmandennis]

Well, the future is more bleak than I had suspected, then. 

It's unfortunate that there's a class that Blizzard touts as the "debuff class" when they've artificially limited its abilities.  I mean, there's already the restriction of only one curse per Warlock, which seems like the design decision.  As such, I don't see how it would really require rebalancing since it seems that they HAVE looked at it from a balancing perspective and added restrictions.  It seems mostly a UI/programming restriction, to me, rather than a balance issue.  If it is a balance issue, it's a poor way to implement it, in my opinion.  However, I wouldn't put that past Blizzard. 

Anyway, thanks for the post.  :)
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I'm not an expert, but I am a programmer.

My guess (and maybe a beta person could back me up) is that the debuff limit has always been in the game. Before there were raid groups, someone probably sat down and said "How many debuffs can you stack on a mob? 5 people, 1.5 debuffs each, 8 sounds about right". The balancing of end game content probably happened much later, and all that work and testing was done assuming the 8 debuff limit.

Obviously, they went live before the end game was completly done, witness the recent restrictions on the size of raid groups. Idealy they would have tested some of this stuff thourougly enough to see that zerging is bad and 8 debuffs are not enough, but then I'd still be reading beta forums instead of playing a flawed but very fun game.

Also, I'm pretty sure Lightning Shield = Fire Shield as far as the mechanics go: either when you hit him or he hits you. I don't think lightning shield just goes off on proximity.

The WC3 spell imolate is AOE, but the area is tiny. It works out to very nearly the same thing.

[playingtokrush]

Also, I'm pretty sure Lightning Shield = Fire Shield as far as the mechanics go: either when you hit him or he hits you.  I don't think lightning shield just goes off on proximity.

The WC3 spell imolate is AOE, but the area is tiny.  It works out to very nearly the same thing.
[right][snapback]72347[/snapback][/right]

I'm pretty sure he's referring to the Warcraft 3 Lightning Shield, which works much like Immolate, except that it damages allied units.

[Skandranon]

Also, I'm pretty sure Lightning Shield = Fire Shield as far as the mechanics go: either when you hit him or he hits you.  I don't think lightning shield just goes off on proximity.
[right][snapback]72347[/snapback][/right]

Actually, Lightning Shield doesn't care for proximity at all: it'll retaliate on a Fireball launched from 41 yards away just as well as it'll hit someone swinging a weapon one yard away.

[playingtokrush]

Actually, Lightning Shield doesn't care for proximity at all: it'll retaliate on a Fireball launched from 41 yards away just as well as it'll hit someone swinging a weapon one yard away.
[right][snapback]72379[/snapback][/right]

That always bothered me about WoW's lightning shield after having played War3.

[oldmandennis]

Nah, I was saying lightning shield WOW = fire shield WOW, as far as the mechanics of when it hits. Forgot about ranged, anyone know if a fire shield affects ranged combat?

Immolate WC3 = LS WC3, except LS affects friendlys, giving it the potential to be used offensivly or defensivly.

Back to the original post that started this, I don't know why warlocks would have an immolate ability. It seems like that sort of thing is already covered by Fire shield, the Infernal immolate and Hellfire.

[Malakar]

Curse of Weakness you'll find not useful enough to amp. Its great for 'normal' mobs below your level, and sometimes PvP (when situation calls for it), but definitely not against elites.

I'm not following your reasoning on the elite point. The damage mitigation buys you more time to deal damage, which you need even more against elites. If you have Amplify Curse, you can use an amped improved CoW on an elite boss for a lot of mitigation.

I find myself using CoW all the time grinding, too. I can easily tread my aggro limit without the other damaging curses, so why not use CoW on all melee?

On top of that, it works well in combination with Life Drain or Blood Funnel.


CoW only requires 3 talent points for a 20% buff. That's not only cheap, but a relatively huge increase, especially considering it gives increasing returns. Considering the other options at that point in Affliction, I consider it a damn good talent to invest in.