PvP rewards preview

[Kevin]

Sooo...  I pvp a lot, kill a lot of enemies, massively 'pwnzor,' and get some cool items.

... but then I go play Baldur's Gate II for a week, log back on, and see that my rank dropped and I can't use any of my cool items. 

Which might as well be a non-factor for people who keep playing and playing and playing and playing and playing and playing and playing and playing and playing and playing and playing forever. 

But I get and play new games, go to work, read books, go do other things, etc. for a good chunk of my time.  I was under the impression that Blizzard was trying to lessen the penalties on casual gamers. 

Summary:  Rank requirement not cool.  If you have the item, then you have reached that pinnacle and ought to be able to reap the rewards without trolling for fights for most of your play time.
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Being casual game friendly and ignoring the hardcore gamers are not one in the same. So you will only be able to realistically maintain ranks 1-5 as a casual gamer. This is where 90%+ of the players are going to be from what I was reading. Since they said they assumed that no one was going to get to the officer ranks without a lot honorable PvP time over several weeks. I'm interpreting their higher ranks as the Officer ranks. It isn't going to be that after the first week the top PvP is now rank 14, there is still a minimum honor level to get that rank, and the minimum only gets higher as more people PvP it seems. A casual gamer isn't going to get out of the rank and file levels to the really cool rewards anyway. I'm also assuming the the lower ranks are more based on the honor you have not how much more you have than the next guy so I doubt those rewards will be lost as much.

Sure the really cool rewards aren't for casual gamers, but right now they are about the only rewards in the game a casual gamer can't get to.

[Artega]

People do not receive dishonor points for killing other players. The system pretty much indicates that if you're grayganking, you're wasting your time.

The mage would cast a few IAEs or FN/CoC and the 30ies would have a nice corpse run.

Edit: Toned down some wording.
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You didn't read the post I quoted, then.

Malakar suggested a penalty for killing too many grays in a set period of time, something akin to resurrection sickness or the like.

Adding such a penalty would make such scenarios lose-lose for said mage and win-win for said zergers.

[Kevin]

I think I have a good answer for you:
http://forums.worldofwarcraft.com/thread.a...&tmp=1#blizzard
:)
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I'm so glad to see that my assumption was correct. Thanks for pulling that little gem out of the grit that is the official forums. :)

[Cryptic]

Hello all,

Re-reading the PvP honor rewards information, I realized that we may finally have a way to measure Alliance and Horde populations on every server, to the nearest thousand.

It is stated that only 1 in a thousand characters will be allowed to attain PvP rank 14 (Grand Marshal for Alliance, High Warlord for Horde). Once the system has been in place for a month or so, we can assume that all potential rank 14 slots will have been filled.

Therefore, if your server has 7 Grand Marshals and 3 High Warlords, you can assume that the total Alliance population on your server is between 7,000 and 7,999, and the total Horde population is between 3,000 and 3,999.

It will quickly become common knowledge who the rank 14s are for your own faction. Hopefully, there will be a way / ladder to track progress on the other side, with the data split by realm. This will give you a constant insight not only into who the enemy rank 14s are, but also what the population of the opponent is.

Should be interesting to see how many servers there are where the Horde outnumbers the Alliance …

[Bun-Bun]

Hello all,

Re-reading the PvP honor rewards information, I realized that we may finally have a way to measure Alliance and Horde populations on every server, to the nearest thousand.

It is stated that only 1 in a thousand characters will be allowed to attain PvP rank 14 (Grand Marshal for Alliance, High Warlord for Horde). Once the system has been in place for a month or so, we can assume that all potential rank 14 slots will have been filled.
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It strikes me that there would be a small but possibly significant population-balancing movement if Blizzard made it slightly easier to attain PvP rank on a lower-population server. This could even be presented as a compensation for the lessened PvP opportunities in a lower population. The whineage this would engender from those already established on high-pop servers would no doubt make this impractical.

The PvP honor system certainly mitigates against the casual player, which is not necessarily a bad thing. It's really a separate game system to suck up the energies of the powergamers and give them something to do while the rest of us get about the business of trying to hit the cap. The Sysiphean nature of the system contrasts strongly with the remainder of the game.

[oldmandennis]

It strikes me that there would be a small but possibly significant population-balancing movement if Blizzard made it slightly easier to attain PvP rank on a lower-population server. This could even be presented as a compensation for the lessened PvP opportunities in a lower population. The whineage this would engender from those already established on high-pop servers would no doubt make this impractical.

Well, they have been talking about allowing server transfers to balance the popluations.

The PvP honor system certainly mitigates against the casual player, which is not necessarily a bad thing. It's really a separate game system to suck up the energies of the powergamers and give them something to do while the rest of us get about the business of trying to hit the cap. The Sysiphean nature of the system contrasts strongly with the remainder of the game.
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yup, that, battle grounds and MC set items (combined with the 5 day lockout) all seem like a diabolical plot to keep people playing without putting them on a treadmill.

[MongoJerry]

yup, that, battle grounds and MC set items (combined with the 5 day lockout) all seem like a diabolical plot to keep people playing without putting them on a treadmill.

Well, the seven day lockout is really a poorly implmeneted feature that made it into retail, because raid instances were introduced so late in the beta that they didn't have time to fix up all the issues. The seven-day thing is to allow groups to spend as long as seven days to clear a particular raid instance (and believe me, Molten Core needs it!). It was not intended, however, to prevent an individual from joining different Molten Core raid groups within a given seven day period. Luckily, the patch notes for the upcoming patch seem to indicate that this problem will be alleviated finally.

[Rinnhart]

There will probably be more killing of NPC's on all types of servers.  That can be
I'm not saying I'm right.  I'm just wanting to see why you think this will increase griefing.  I'd elaborate a bit more on some points as well, but my lunch break is over, I'll get back to it.
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It's not terribly difficult for a level 60 of any class to mow through low 50's. Just as green kills for experience are faster than hunting things your level, smacking around a few players of lower level is alot easier and safer than taking people your level.

So, the meeting stones near BRD, Maraudon, and ST...

Getting my picture?

[MongoJerry]

It's not terribly difficult for a level 60 of any class to mow through low 50's. Just as green kills for experience are faster than hunting things your level, smacking around a few players of lower level is alot easier and safer than taking people your level.

I definitely forsee a much more vicious future ahead for the PvP servers. Right now, it's common in lower populated outdoor questing areas for players to not fight each other under the theory that "If I let him complete his quests, he'll let me complete my quests." With the whole PvP honor sytem in, I don't see people passing up opportunities to kill people anymore. And perhaps from some points of view, that's a good thing. After all, the PvP server is supposed to have a lot of PvP going on. However, it will definitely be a change.

[Malakar]

If you mouse over a feigned hunter, the icon turns into the KILL ME! sword icon.  It's a dead giveaway, no pun intended.
A group of Lv.30's zergs a Lv.60 mage.  The mage is ?? to them (an honorable kill, right?), and the Lv.30's are gray to the mage.  If they mage fights back, he gets penalized for it.  If he doesn't, he'll die.

I'm going to assume you're a PvE player, where this sort of scenario isn't a very common sight.
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That's why I suggested something temporary, rather than permanent. Something that only comes into effect when the high level racks up a lot of kills in a short period of time.

I play on a PVP server, and it's the high level player's choice to be in a low level zone or not. This scenario happens, but not a lot, though it may increase after the honor system is put in. But how often it happens should only affect the specific design of the system when they decide just how many kills incurs penalties and how fast the counter decays.

Believe me, I know about the dangers of penalties for killing low level players and the abuse that can result. I don't think it can get any worse than Lineage 1 chao makers (wait, maybe Lineage 2 :D).

[Rinnhart]

I definitely forsee a much more vicious future ahead for the PvP servers.  Right now, it's common in lower populated outdoor questing areas for players to not fight each other under the theory that "If I let him complete his quests, he'll let me complete my quests."  With the whole PvP honor sytem in, I don't see people passing up opportunities to kill people anymore.  And perhaps from some points of view, that's a good thing.  After all, the PvP server is supposed to have a lot of PvP going on.  However, it will definitely be a change.
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And it's not going to be two players squaring off in righteous battle; it's going to be one player going on and doing his thing while the other sneaks up for the kill.

[oldmandennis]

Well, the seven day lockout is really a poorly implmeneted feature that made it into retail, because raid instances were introduced so late in the beta that they didn't have time to fix up all the issues.  The seven-day thing is to allow groups to spend as long as seven days to clear a particular raid instance (and believe me, Molten Core needs it!).  It was not intended, however, to prevent an individual from joining different Molten Core raid groups within a given seven day period.  Luckily, the patch notes for the upcoming patch seem to indicate that this problem will be alleviated finally.
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Sorry, I guess I got the wrong impression about the lock out feature. Due to a bad case of altitis, I'm only lvl 44 despite playing pretty steadily since launch. So you are saying you could form a raid, clear the MC, leave the instance, form up again and take another run at it. I hope people realize that finding the last part of your set will take about as long as finding the last 3 pieces before the lose their job, marriage, etc. Maybe they should put in a limit on the number of times people can run the MC or Oxania in a given period, just to save some sanity.


Also, about excessive ganking,

At this point, your faction will have recorded a victory in the Alterac Valley Battleground, with a huge number of subsequent honor points being added to the honor pool that will then be distributed to all PvP combatants for the day.

hopefully the coolness of battlegrounds combined with ample oppertunities to kill appropriate level chars and the chance to hit the PVP jackpot will draw bored lvl 60's into the Alterac Valley, allowing everyone else to lvl in relative peace.

[savaughn]

I play on a PVP server, and it's the high level player's choice to be in a low level zone or not. This scenario happens, but not a lot, though it may increase after the honor system is put in.[right][snapback]70289[/snapback][/right]

Disagree - on both points. Blizzard went out of their way to put content twenty levels above the regional content into certain zones. For example, there are 5 Horde quests up to level 35 in Gnomeregan that take you through Dun Morogh where the average Alliance player is level 7. Those quests are still green for Horde players up to level 41. Blizz very much intended to draw players of unequal level into conflict and designed their game to reflect that. A lot of the NPC guards in the newbie areas are level 55 - fair game for level 60 PvP'ers. Because of this, Blizz is marking these guys as fair game and practically begging for high levels to go hang out in the opposing newbie towns.

And I've personally been part of a lot of occasions when low level players (especially players in the 20's and 30's) gang together in large masses to take down solitary opposing players. This scenario does happen. A lot. On the alliance side (as an example) it will happen every couple hours in Duskwood and Redridge. It also happens in Westfall and Darkshore - and in those cases the lowbies have to go out of their way to activate their PvP to bring down the higher level player. Heck, last week I was in Goldshire and a lvl 40 and a 30 players no higher than 15 were working together to kill a pair of level 60's who were hanging out killing questgivers in the area.

[MongoJerry]

Disagree - on both points.  Blizzard went out of their way to put content twenty levels above the regional content into certain zones.  For example, there are 5 Horde quests up to level 35 in Gnomeregan that take you through Dun Morogh where the average Alliance player is level 7.  Those quests are still green for Horde players up to level 41.  Blizz very much intended to draw players of unequal level into conflict and designed their game to reflect that.

Terrible example. Horde players get to Gnomeregan via an instant teleporter in Booty Bay. They never have to actually walk through Dun Morogh except as a ghost during a corpse run. Besides, Dun Morogh is Alliance territory, so the Alliance players can't be attacked by Horde players there anyway unless the Alliance players attack first, even on PvP servers. The only real example of mixed levels in a given area is the notorious Hillsbrad zone where level 30's Alliance players have to go through the area where level 20's Horde players quest multiple times to get to complete their quests in Alterac and the Scarlet Monastery. Hence, that's why Hillsbrad is gank central.

A lot of the NPC guards in the newbie areas are level 55 - fair game for level 60 PvP'ers.  Because of this, Blizz is marking these guys as fair game and practically begging for high levels to go hang out in the opposing newbie towns.

Actually, it's the opposite. The guards used to be lower level than this, but higher level players kept killing NPC's in newbie towns, so Blizzard raised the level of the guards to make raiding newbie towns more of a challenge -- Not an impossible challenge, but something that might take more than a solo player to achieve.

[Kevin]

Actually, it's the opposite.  The guards used to be lower level than this, but higher level players kept killing NPC's in newbie towns, so Blizzard raised the level of the guards to make raiding newbie towns more of a challenge -- Not an impossible challenge, but something that might take more than a solo player to achieve.
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I think they also added the chance for some elite guards to spawn in some of the smaller towns as well. I've seen some elite NPC's in Camp Narche and Bloodhoof after they've been under attack that I don't recall seeing before the changes to guard levels. However I may just have not noticed that before.

I also noticed at the time this change was made that the Horde main city guards were moved up from 40's and 50's to the seemily standard 55's and the Alliance city guards were moved from 62's to 55's as well. Thunderbluff and Orgrimmar used to be a lot less well defended by NPC's as compared to Iron Forge, Stormwind, and Darnassus. Undercity had 62's before as well but it was the only Horde city that did. It was one of the things that was pointed to in the "Blizzard likes Alliance more" whines.

[Malakar]

If it does end up like this, it's a lot worse than it being like this from the beginning.

I have MANY characters on a PVP server. I'm not willing to simply start over on a PVE server. If the PVP servers become unplayable, and they do not offer server transfers, that means I find another game to play.

[Malakar]

Well we disagree but it doesn't matter anyway. It's quite simple to put in first hit tracking, so defending yourself will never incur penalties. There may be some collateral damage in the chaos, but it shouldn't matter, because like I said the penalties should only come from large numbers of kills.

The purpose of the system would be to discourage these lame 60's that sit around ganking in redridge all day, who rack up kill after kill after kill of lowbies. They get a LOT more kills than the average player defending themselves against zergs, so it should be pretty easy to make an appropriate system.

[Ruvanal]

I think they also added the chance for some elite guards to spawn in some of the smaller towns as well.  I've seen some elite NPC's in Camp Narche and Bloodhoof after they've been under attack that I don't recall seeing before the changes to guard levels.  However I may just have not noticed that before.
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Many of the quest NPCs were set to have elite guards to spawn if they are attacked.

[Chaerophon]

http://wow-europe.com/en/pvp/pvp-article-part2.html

This has me drooling in anticipation.  Can't wait for it to get patched in.
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So, when do we start calling it 'World of Warcrack'?