Higher Education

[Munkay]

Background Information

Still shy of my 20th birthday, I've got a long way to go before I need to start stressing about GRE's, paying off undergrad tuition loans, and increased course load of grad school.

But I want to start assembling as much information as I can early on. I failed to do this when it came to chosing an undergrad school. I really lucked out, and going to Boston University is the best decision I've made so far. I don't want to leave grad school to chance. Or at least minimize the luck factor as much as possible.

I'm not looking for advice on specific schools, as much as I am on the overall process. Though any specific advice would also be appreciated (school suggestions, focus's within major, etc)

I will graduate Boston University within the first 4 years, with a double major: Philosphy, and Ancient Civilization. It's doubtful I'll graduate within the top 10% of my class, though I look on target to be within the top 20%. The end goal (which is not exactly the most lucrative) is most likely College Professorship. I'm hooked on learning, and the idea of helping others along the way, and making my livelyhood lecturing on what I love, is appealing to me. Granted, I'm not too naive about it. Income is an issue, faculty politics, can be enough to make your head spin.

This means I'm eyeing a Masters, and Doctoral. At this point it looks that they will be in Philosophy. I'm open to that changing though.


The Actual Questions

Must/Should you go Masters, then Doctoral? I've heard mention of skipping directly to Doctoral.

Is there any point to double degrees on Masters level? My roomate's father has 4 degrees in Psychology, 2 are Masters from Columbia. Is he crazy?

What about Law School? What is the process/amount of time required for this? I know there are many avenues you can pursue career wise with a law degree, but other than a trial lawyer, I haven't heard much about them.

Does anyone have experience teaching College level courses (undergrad or grad)? Specifically any bad experiences?

Why do people say you should get your degrees from different schools? Is this because its rare that a school has a strong undergrad and grad in a program, because there are specific grad schools known for specific things (and degrees hold more weight from those), or because is it just social convention under the guise of expanding your horizons?

There are joint programs offered at BU, such as a 4 year grad program for a Doctoral in Philosophy and a Masters in Ancient Civilization at the same time, are these considered the same as a Masters and Doctoral gained seperately?

Is the financial aid much better? I've heard the United States' Government gives more to Grad students than Undergrad.

Can you get an extension on Undergrad Loans if you attend Grad school 'full time'? Full time refering to Teaching Fellowships, etc. Am I going to get slapped with paying my undergrad straight out of school, no matter what?

*What higher degrees do you hold? Would you change anything about them, if you could?*Couldn't help asking. My friend's call me whiskers, because I'm as curious as a cat

--------------------
Thanks ahead of time for replies,

Munk

[Occhidiangela]

[quote=Munkay,Nov 10 2004, 07:37 PM]
Background Information

What about Law School? What is the process/amount of time required for this?
I know there are many avenues you can pursue career wise with a law degree, but other than a trial lawyer, I haven't heard much about them.

Wow, where does one start? Hoping Goldfish can chime in.

Contract law is a huge field. Corporate legal counsel. Financial institutions that run trusts and such need legal advice. Suggest you write to your local bar association for more info in the different fields that Lawyers work in.

Is the financial aid much better? I've heard the United States' Government gives more to Grad students than Undergrad.

As far as hiring, if you want to be hired by the government for more money, having a masters gets you started at a higher pay level, often, than not. Financial aid packages vary a great deal, depending on program. Suggest you start your search at the Department of Education web site. the .gov one.

*What higher degrees do you hold? Would you change anything about them, if you could?*Couldn't help asking. My friend's call me whiskers, because I'm as curious as a cat

2 Masters of Arts, or, as I like to call them, two Masters in Baiting. Years ago, passed up the chance to go to Navy Post Graduate School and get a Masters in Systems Engineering due to a variety of reasons, have alays wondered if I missed a great opportunity. Life has worked out well enough since then, I suppose, since the choice I made ended up creating the conditions under which I met my wife. :D

The course work and papers written, and the reading, and the research, were what gave me value. Did both courses while otherwise employed, the time management drill was quite enlightening.

Am starting work on Education certification, which will probably evolve over time into a Masters in Education or Science, hard to say at this point, all with the aim of corrupting, sorry, developing young minds! :rolleyes:

As they say at Faber College, Knowledge is Good. If you can swing the dough, or get a fellowship, or some financial support, I'd strongly recommend furthering your education. If you want to be a professor, just make sure you are passionate about your subject. That way, your life's love will be your work, and you won't really be "working." :)

Occhi

[--Pete]

Hi,

Must/Should you go Masters, then Doctoral?

Depends on the field. In many fields, the masters is a 'consolation' prize. People who fail to pass the preliminary examination for the doctoral program get to do a six month project and get a masters. That is the way it is in math, chemistry and physics at many schools. In other fields, the masters is a 'real' degree.

If you have a choice, go directly for the doctorate, since all that matters in the long run is the highest degree you hold. And if you plan to teach (you might want to take a look at the ratio of *qualified* applicants per tenure track position, it used to be over 200 to 1) the doctorate is almost a requirement.

Is there any point to double degrees on Masters level?

Only if you are planing a career change.

What about Law School?

No idea.

Does anyone have experience teaching College level courses (undergrad or grad)?

The real breakpoint isn't undergraduate/graduate, it is lower division (AKA 'service courses') and 'real courses'. Service courses are mostly taken by people who are not in a field but are fulfilling some type of requirement (often restricted electives). For the most part, these people are not really interested in the subject, and at best will do fair work for a grade. Upper division and graduate courses are attended by people who really are (or at least should be) interested in the subject, given that they've effectively settled on it for a career. These are the courses where it is possible for the professor to learn as much from the students as the other way around.

I've taught all three (service, upper division, grad) and the higher level courses are more challenging but all are fun. But be prepared to do a *lot* more work teaching a course (especially the first time) than you ever did taking one.

Why do people say you should get your degrees from different schools?

Getting a degree is as much about expanding your mind as it is about skills and facts. Each school has its own 'belief system'. By going to different schools at different times, you are exposed to a different set of ideas which help to make your own thinking more original. It used to be that schools would not hire their own alumni for the same reason, but that has changed in the past quarter century -- part of the ongoing confusion between 'education' and 'training'.

There are joint programs offered at BU, such as a 4 year grad program for a Doctoral in Philosophy and a Masters in Ancient Civilization at the same time, are these considered the same as a Masters and Doctoral gained seperately?

By 'Doctor of Philosophy' do you mean a doctorate in the field of philosophy or a 'Ph.D.' (which is the 'doctorate' in most fields, law, medicine, and theology being the exceptions that come to mind)? If the former, then the doctorate in philosophy does you little good outside of a philosophy department (the work is good mental exercise, but you can do that on your own through electives). If the latter, see above under 'Masters or Doctorate'.

Is the financial aid much better?

Depends. In many technical fields getting a doctorate is a free (as far as money goes) ride. The stipend for a teaching assistant (usually first two years while doing coursework) and research assistant (after completing the preliminary exams and starting a research program) are usually enough to cover all expenses. In addition, a paid position usually means you pay 'staff' prices for tuition -- especially important if you go to an out of state school.

How much it is going to cost you to go to grad school is a pretty good indication of how easily you will find post graduate employment and how much you can expect a field to pay. Of course, there are exceptions (law and medicine, although neither is as good as they were in the '50s and '60s). If a field is in demand, then the 'slave labor' of grad students is, too. If it is not (and I fear that the fields you mentioned are not), then TA and RA positions are scarce to non-existent. Then, your undergrad outstanding loans are looked at as part of your overall liability and getting additional loans can be difficult.

Can you get an extension on Undergrad Loans if you attend Grad school 'full time'?

You could when I went to grad school. But rules change all the time. Go to your school's loan officer and ask what the rules are for your type of loans and if there is any rumor of coming changes.

*What higher degrees do you hold?  Would you change anything about them, if you could?

Ph.D. in physics. I was ten quarter hours away from a BS in math when I finished undergrad work at Ga. Tech. -- wish I'd gone one more quarter and picked that up. Other than that, no regrets.

--Pete

[Vornzog]

Hey Munkay,

Must/Should you go Masters, then Doctoral?  I've heard mention of skipping directly to Doctoral.

Depends on your field. As was mentioned above, for some fields, the masters means 'not good enough for the PhD'. Ask some of your current professors - they'll be able to tell you easily.

Is there any point to double degrees on Masters level? My roomate's father has 4 degrees in Psychology, 2 are Masters from Columbia.  Is he crazy?

That sounds a little crazy. I'd say you only get a second masters if you change fields. Don't really know, though.

What about Law School? What is the process/amount of time required for this?  I know there are many avenues you can pursue career wise with a law degree, but other than a trial lawyer, I haven't heard much about them.

Way out of my realm. I can recommend some good chemistry schools, though... :D

Does anyone have experience teaching College level courses (undergrad or grad)?  Specifically any bad experiences?

I have not done a full course, but plenty of labs and such. A post-doc I work with is teaching her first this semester, though. She seems a little swamped. I think it was quite a bit more than she was expecting.

Why do people say you should get your degrees from different schools?  Is this because its rare that a school has a strong undergrad and grad in a program, because there are specific grad schools known for specific things (and degrees hold more weight from those), or because is it just social convention under the guise of expanding your horizons?

Some of both. I'm doing my PhD at the same school where I did my BA. It can be done, but it is discouraged. I suspect most people you ask would lean toward the 'expanding your horizons' angle.

There are joint programs offered at BU, such as a 4 year grad program for a Doctoral in Philosophy and a Masters in Ancient Civilization at the same time, are these considered the same as a Masters and Doctoral gained seperately?

I would assume you'll get two pieces of paper, and could count those as two degrees. The easiest way to find out would be to call admissions and ask.

Is the financial aid much better? I've heard the United States' Government gives more to Grad students than Undergrad.

I'm paid a stipend for teaching/research. This is not great money, but it covers cost of living - at least the cash flow is into your bank account, instead of out.

However, there are quite a few fellowships for any field that you should be able to apply for. Consider starting your senior year, if you are really serious about continuing on. That way, if you get turned down, you may have another chance at the start of grad school.

The applications will generally be similar to any scholarship apps you may have done in the past. I'm working on one right at the moment - or rather, I should be, instead of writing this. It asks all the usual questions, plus a paper focused on what my research project is going to be.

Can you get an extension on Undergrad Loans if you attend Grad school 'full time'? Full time refering to Teaching Fellowships, etc.  Am I going to get slapped with paying my undergrad straight out of school, no matter what?

Again, depends on your particular situation. Consider calling the office of financial aid at your school and asking them. There is usually some flexibility in those sorts of things.

*What higher degrees do you hold?  Would you change anything about them, if you could?*Couldn't help asking. My friend's call me whiskers, because I'm as curious as a cat

A BA in biochemistry, though I am one class shy of another in chemistry and two classes shy of one in math. Not sorry I didn't get those extra degrees. My PhD work should show that I am competent in those areas.

Hope that helped.

-V-

[Chaerophon]

Hey Munk,

Must/Should you go Masters, then Doctoral? I've heard mention of skipping directly to Doctoral.

Coming from a Canadian perspective, I don't know of any PhD programs in Political Science/Theory/Philosophy north of the 49 that allow entry without prior completion of a Masters program. I'm tempted to think that Philosophy would fall under the same restrictions. Things might be different in the U.S., but even in Britain (Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, Essex), most PhD programs that I have come across either require a masters or are 1 + 3 programs in which the first year is masters course requirements and the following three are PhD courses, followed by a thesis.