Need help with Necromancer

[Jarulf]

OK, so I might know a bit about how the game works, but I really have no idea how to play it well so I need some help. First of, I have really only played much before the expansion. My single player chars includes a Paladin who suddenly found his Milabrega Set now being for Sorceress!!!! Sigh. Oh well. I have created a necromancer on the realms though (I think he is called Sporl and is found on European realm). I have so far got to the Monastary in act 1 and so far I am doing fine. However, I really have no clue about possible ways to develop him. He is arround level 14 or so and have only invested 4 or 5 skill points (and I just remembered that I have to allocate stat points too so I put them all in energy and raised stregth to 25 or so to wear some items.

My question is now, what are some good alternatives to develop him? For the record, he so far is running arround with a Clay Golem, 2 skeletons (I think I have a +1 rais skeleton item), and a Skeleton mage. He casts Amp Damage and Iron Maiden in battles as well :) Basically all skills are level 1.

Do note that I am a “slow” player in that I play along having fun, not to raise in levels. Any plan going above level 50 is just silly, since I will probably not get close to that. I think I want him to at least have a good golem (of whatever typ, which one is the most fun and usefull?) as well as trying some skeletons and such. Curses seems nice, but what are good combinations and what to go for? Are there still skills that are enough with 1 skill points? And how much should I really put into various things. Finally, I also want at least SOME offensive missile skills available.

So, how should I go about it? And also, what stats should I drop stat points into?

Finally, what type of equipment should I be looking out for (and please, no elite item uniques, sets and such, I probably won’t make it far into a hell game in the near future and don’t like being given full sets or top items. I am more interested in general ideas of item types and usefull mods to look out for as a Necromancer and what to ignore.

Thanks for any input in advance.

[Caaroid]

Hello

First off I'd like to say that it might look silly that I give advice to THE Jarulf, but I have some experience with Necros and I might have some things to say that you find useful.

Possible extremist builds:
- skelemancer: focuses on skeletons and skeleton mastery. Skeletons are very powerful now in 1.10; with a Blessed Aim merc they can carry you through hell (if you SERIOUSLY do not plan to play that far, a MIGHT merc might be better; however you'll find that playing on the realms grants you LOT of experience in 1.10 even without doing runs)
- bonemancer: focuses on the bone skills. Note, that WALL and PRISON are synergies to ALL bone skills, so you can get a powerful offense AND defense going this way.
- Poison using necro (Poisomancer?) need 60 skill points, causes lags... people won't like you (until you tell them you're Jarulf that is :)

Ok, now for some USEFUL advice
If you are planning on making a balanced build with summons, curses and offense:
- put some points into skeleton mastery, raise skeleton
- at least one point to Revive, it is REALLY easy to come accross +2 necro skill wands, and a few revives might be enough
- AI modifying curses are INCREDIBLY powerful. If you have the points to spare, DIM VISION makes all non-boss monsters stay in place for considerable amount of time. AMP and Iron Maden are useful fo help branches of your armies, while you keep the rest of the enemies blind
- For offense/defense: get ONE point in Bone Armor; pick an attack spell (spear or Spirit), and then pump that... if you'll find that you have points to burn, putting them into Bone Prison will make your armor and spirit/spear stronger, and also allows you to handle the bosses who cannot be affected by Dim Vison.

Mind you: this build would need 100 skill points + prerequisites to finish (max Skel mastery/skeletons OR mages; max dim vision, max spear/spirit + Prison), so you obviously have to select wether you'd be a summoner with some offensive abilities or a bone necro with a portable meat shield.

About items: in 1.10 I find that it is VERY advisable to have high resist in the game... if you have dim vision or bone prison, then you might get away with having less resists (also hiding behind your minions help), but it is just safer that way.
+ nec skills are a bliss
+ life/mana charms help a lot
if you can afford it: BLOCK. You'll need dex, and a dexent blocking shield, and this might be a problem for a necro, since you might have to give up using some juicy necro-only shield... you can decide on this later on, but if you think you might want a shield later on, save 2 points for dexterity every level up...

Last comment about getting good items:
I play with a friend. Not frequently, we're both rather busy in "normal life". Just today, while playing for an hour, I found three elite uniques. This is normal play, no rushes, no runs, hardly any MF. The biggest change I feel in 1.10 is the gameplay: you get more exp and better items for playing the game than in previous versions.

Hope there was some useful info in all this rambling :)

Happy hunting

[TriggerHappy]

A very fun Necromancer build:

Max Raise Skeleton (this is the first one to max)
Max Skeleton Mastery (max after RS)

One point into all curses, but the most important ones to get is Amplify Damage, Decrepify and Lifetap to assist your Skeletons, and Dim Vision/Confuse to disable ranged attackers (which hurt much more than ever).

5-15 point (per your preference) in Corpse Explosion. It's a good but not uber skill now (doesn't scale anymore).

1 point in Bone Armor, Bone Wall, Bone Prison. Bone Armor for your protection, the other two for special occasions.

1 point in all Golems and Golem Mastery. I usually run around with an Iron Golem, alternating with a Fire Golem whenever i need to redirect the attention of monsters or the clay golem when fighting an act boss (after the Iron Golem dies).

After that, if you're stil playing the character, dump all remaning points into Confuse (you'll need it if you ever venture into act 2-5 nightmare or anywhere in hell). I've maxed mine for the longest possible duration.

And ofcourse don't forget to get yourself an Act2 Prayer Merc in normal, and Act2 Might merc in Nightmare. Alternately you could go with an Act1 Fire Arrow Rogue Mercenary. Either one will help the skeletons make bodies for CE, though i prefer the AC2 NM Might one.


That's my current favourite. The other two common builds are all out Poison (Poison Nova and synergies) or all out Bone (Bone Spirit/Spear with synergies and Corpse Explosion) both of which have just the Merc and one Golem for summons.

[Brista]

The single main decision is whether to use skeletons or not

Skeletons are now uber, and are certainly over-powered in relation to other classes' abilities. They are certainly over-powered compared to other item-poor builds - all you really need to finish the game is an occasional wand bought from the vendor

Having said that, they're great fun and very interesting to play. I've always been a big fan and they're very enjoyable now

The key issue is that the life bonus from the Raise Skeleton and the Skeleton Mastery skills are multiplicative. Most such bonuses are additive. This makes the skeletons exponentially powerful. One of the Basin players, Koalachan, tells me that 30/30 Skeletons can kill Hell Baal

I played one in the first week of the Ladder and had a fairly easy trek through the game as far as Hell Arreat Summit.

Basic Necromancer tactical considerations are:

1) How do I deal damage? Main choices are Raise Skeleton + Mastery, Poison Nova, Corpse Explosion

2) Two of those need a corpse to get going. So the second issue is How do I get the first kill? Good choices are Attract, a well-developed Bone Spirit or a well-equipped merc, especially an Offensive Act 2 merc

3) Can I multiply my damage? Amplify Damage, Lower Resist and Decrepify all help

4) How do I control the battlefield? Bone prison, Bone wall, Terror, Decrepify, and Dim Vision are good choices. More subtle players often have a range of these options available and skillfully select between them. Some players have great skill in casting Golems in the function of the Amazon Decoy skill - to scout and draw fire. A simpler solution is just to have a huge army - you can often get away with not having anything elegant at all

5) How do I not die? Put some points in life, try to find gear that improves your resists. I had 300 or so Vitality on my Ladder Necromancer and 1200 life and I still got killed. Even in Softcore dying is very tedious - you have to re-summon all your minions which can be time-consuming and not always easy

6) How do I kill Act bosses? Often the minions are not especially effective, although the new skeletons can cope when supported with skills items, revives and Decrepify. Lurking around the corner and spamming Bone Spirit works, I have resorted to lurking around the corner and using Iron Maiden plus a golem until the boss beats himself to death. This can take a long time - I had a 45 minute fight with Diablo doing this in 1.09

7) How do I deal with immunes? Usually the problem is physical immunes and due to an idiosyncracy of the monstats.txt file pretty much every physical immune monster has 100% immunity and so their resistance can be broken by Amplify Damage or Decrepify while creatures with elemental resist have values like 190% which won't be broken by Lower Resist. (These curses subtract one-fifth of their usual value from immune monsters). In addition to breaking immunities you can also add a range of damage types to your character: Bone Spear and Bone Spirit are magic damage, Corpse Explosion is 50% fire and 50% physical, Poison Nova is poison of course, Skeletons are physical, Skeleton Mages are a controllable mix of Fire, Cold, Lightning and Poison and Revives depend on the monsters available although you can go collecting especially horrible creatures when you're anticipating a tough fight

8) What merc do I use? Almost certainly you want an Act 2 Merc because that gives you an aura that benefits the whole army. There is an Act 3 Merc called Jarulf but (cough) I'm afraid he's really not very good. My personal favourite is Thorns but any of the auras should work

9) Which skills suck? Teeth, Weaken. Poison Explosion looks like high damage but you can't aim - it has to be centred on a corpse and it is a small radius and the cloud expands fairly slowly.

Poison Nova, Poison Dagger, Bone Spear and Bone spirit need very heavy investment to become good spells later on. They will most certainly suck if you put just 5 points in.

Iron Maiden is a good curse but it is overshadowed now by the availability of Thorns mercs which reflect significantly more damage without taking up that valuable spot over the monsters' heads.

I'm going to be very contentious and say that basically golems suck. If you put 20 in skeleton and 20 in mastery you get 9 minions any one of which beats a similarly maxxed golem. A point of golem works well, but I wouldn't advise investing more than one in each type

I would recommend that you don't diversify too much. I'm a big fan of maxxing out skills - almost an extremist in fact. Traditionally Necromancers have quite often been made with a point in each curse, a point in each summons and several different poison and bone skills. I've heard Necro players complain about only having 16 hotkeys. I can't stand this approach, I think it can be a surefire way to build a character that sucks, especially if you're not an expert

One last point is to consider who you want to play with. Public BNet is fast, very much so. If you make a game called Act 1 Start, Andariel will probably be dead in less than 20 minutes, possibly in under 10 minutes

Alternating between soloing and partying can work quite well, you might choose to solo and explore a bit and then party for a lively change of pace as well as the chance to see what everyone else is doing

Another alternative is the Amazon Basin. They have a board called Weaseltech listing passwords which allow you to play private games with the other players in the community. I started playing in their games about 18 months ago, friendly bunch of people and generally considerate. You might still end up playing alone if everyone is in Act 5 and you're in Act 1 but you can usually meet someone. Hardcore has more people in the lower difficulties, generally speaking, than softcore so I would recommend hardcore over softcore if you expect to spend most of your time in Normal because there's more people around. Similarly Ladder has much more people than non-Ladder. Besides I'm hardcore ladder on Europe too :)

I would also point you and other readers to the AB Necro Forum as well as the Armoury here at the Lounge:
http://www.theamazonbasin.com/d2/forums/in...hp?showforum=53

I'm working on a guide to playing Skeleton Necromancers so it should be in the Armoury soon, various distractions permitting

[Caaroid]

I just want to add, that I've been playing necromancers since 1.0, since the day the game came out, and I have to admit, this was an awesome post Brista!

[Jarulf]

Thanks, all, a good bunch of advice there. I have not really decided yet, although I do have 3 skeletons for now. I picked an act 2 merc (I am in act 2 now). Still don't know how to pick what skill I want them to have, only says offenseive and defensive. Think I got one that improves defence.

One thing I have noted is that the merc (which is the by far fastest killer compared to skeletons and golem), and to some extent the others, totally suck in areas with small corridors, for example the next with bugs and in arcane sanctuary. Usually he stands far away and refuses to move towards the enemy. I have also had situations with the golem being in front (blocking for the ones at the back) hiting the monsters but not doing ANY damage (merc refusing to move up and hit from behind the golem with his long weapon). Usually resorting to haveing to run arround the dungeon to aatck from another direction and having the merc and some others geting stuck in corridors and such. The merc also seems to head for closests enemy even if he can't reach them, very annoying in Sanctuary. Oh well.

Now I have to figure out how to handle Duriel. My Necro really can't do any damage other than with his wand so far. His minions probably will die quickly, I have to see :)


EDIT: Duriel was not that bad. I just kept recasting Clay Golem and kept him under Iron Maiden. He drop Steelgoad which my merc now uses and some rare armor. That was it, not sure I was unlucky or not.

[BellaStrega]

(I'm sort of a new poster, in that I was a regular during the D2LOD beta, but that was two forums back)

Jarulf,

I've been playing a ladder Skelemancer for the past week, and found Duriel to be quite easy - of course, at the time, I had 26 in Raise Skeleton, along with a Blessed Aim Merc. However, others have said that they've taken him without any trouble with RS of 9 or so.

The first real trouble I've had in the game was, in fact, Diablo himself. Skeletons took down everything else, including Mephisto. Skelemancers are probably one of the easiest builds to play right now.

EDIT: Now I see the edit.

[Jarulf]

I "only" have raise skeleton and skeleton mastery at level 6 each (I think I have +4 skill levels for mastery and +1 or +2 for raise through items). They usually do very good but die quickly versus some bosses.

[Crystalion]

There is an Act 3 Merc called Jarulf but (cough) I'm afraid he's really not very good.

:D actually, though MongoJerry is having trouble believing me, my act 3 cold merc is doing a fine job of supporting my Enchantress... his name, as you've no doubt guessed, is Jarulf.

Aside from the advice in this thread, Brista has been posting lots of interesting insights into the necro (skelie focus) lately (on AB mostly--viva la LL!!)

Clay Golems are one point wonders (because they slow an opponent when they are hit, and combined with decrepify you pretty much shut down monsters in release 1 v1.10).

[BellaStrega]

I've got a Jarulf on my single player FrenzyBarb (really intended for Berserk, but I don't play him enough, and 1.10 rendered him powerless). He's doing fairly well (cold as well) in Act IV.

[D2Player69]

Just wanted to suggest getting an item with teleport charges for your Necromancer once you're at a level and in a place where you can use and shop for one. I usually start shopping at lvl 24 and find the staff I want in Act 2 at Drognan's within 5 minutes. Staves are easiest, fairly inexpensive if you can find one without any Sorc skill bonuses, and easily left on your weapon switch.

Against powerful individual monsters, refresh your Bone Armor and teleport right into its face. Then take a small step back. It might swing at you once, but the entire horde of skeletons, mages, revives, golem, and merc will all be on top of the critter, essentially immobilizing it and allowing you to use curses or some other skill with a fair degree of safety. This is how I took down Diablo at lvl 29 with 20 points invested in Raise Skeleton and lost only one skeleton doing it, even though I had invested only one point in Skeleton Mastery by that time (had a wand I shopped with an extra +2 to Skeleton Mastery, though).

It goes without saying that this will also let you keep your army from dissolving when they get stuck on corners or you're traversing long distances or twisty corridors.

John H

[kandrathe]

Yes, on many of my characters, Jarulf the Cold Iron Wolf, has been useful for me. I like Iron Wolves due to their ability to carry a shield and a one handed weapon. But, alas, just as it seems the *real* world Jarulf is not interested in Hell difficulty, neither was mine. Way too many cold immunes, so he retired in Act II Hell and hangs out in Atma's chilling our Ale.

Our maggot lair toast; *For all you do, this bug's for you!*

I have a level 60 Bonemancer on the ladder realm, who parties with a Cold Sorceress. I chose to go minionless (but, I did put 1 pt in skeleton, and 1 pt in mastery to help me along in the beginning). I'm nearing the end of Nightmare difficulty, and only have Baal remaining. So far I have found, gambled, or bought gear that adds +5 to all necro skills. I have a pt in CE, and 4 pts in Bone Armor. I focused on Bone Spear (20), Bone Wall(5), Bone Spirit (4), and then maxed Bone Prison(20). I did still invest one point in most of the curses to get Lower resistance which I intend to push up as high as I can now. I have a collection of wands that allow me to use revives, push up Bone skills, or summon different golems. I have zero points in golems, but again that was just a choice I made. I have a wand that adds +2 to Fire Golem, allowing me to cast a weak one which I use tactically. First I build a bone wall funnel (fortress for me as well), which automatically attracts half the map. Then as the number of the hordes diminishes I summon the fire golem as far out as I can which attracts the remaining half of the map. The cold sorceress and our mercs usually can demolish everything in the funnel with bone spears, and ice storms. I tend to the defenses as needed. So far, to level 60 I died once due to my own stupidity in bone prisoning myself in with Duriel (but, I must admit to almost dying to NM Diablo, and Ancients -- in the end I focused on immobilizing them while the sorceress applied the damage). Beyond bone spirit, and CE I hot key between different curses all the time. Amplify Damage, Lower Resistance, Decrepify, Dim Vision, Confuse, Life Tap all are useful in different situations. It's just that it can be tough in the heat of combat trying to remember which hot key is which (many times I just end up defaulting to old reliable Amp Damage).

As far as I can tell, the maximum Strength one might need for a Necro specific item is 106, so I stopped there for now. Dex is irrelavant (and it probably is with most necros unless you actually want to try to fight ) as I try to always keep a layer or two or three of bone armor, bone wall or bone prison between me and the bad guys. I stopped Dex at 45 I think. All the rest of my points were split between Life and Mana. Faster Cast gear and Mana gear is useful if you are a bone spearer, and CE'er like me. I'm getting by yet on a two socket "Stealth" rune word breast plate armor for the mana regeneration. Some set items (Arcanna's Sign, Civerbs Icon) offer good mana boosts. Rares are much improved in 1.10 so gamble for gloves, boots and belts to get good dual resist items.

Hope that helps with that type of a build.

[LavCat]

OK, so I might know a bit about how the game works, but I really have no idea how to play it well so I need some help.

I'm not sure how much it will help, but while looking for something else tonight, I found my first necromancer guide. The key that I did not know at the time is that you can always create a new game and start again. Since mastering that fact he has since reached level 90.


Rogue Encampment 07/02/1000

After I died miserably in the first campaign, I scoured the plains and moors and caves, and sold my jewelry. Some hours later I returned with a fresh party of ten heroes: a mage, a rogue, six skeletons, and me plus my little golem. We recovered some of our original equipment, but our fate remained the same.

My revenants have a life of 122, to my best belief and knowledge. At one point I was reduced in my desperation to defending our party with the wretched limb of Wirt, as there was nothing left. I have tried approaching Andariel in superior chain mail, and also in beryl armor with a matching amulet, bearing all the antidote that I could buy. All without success.

Now I am sitting nearly naked in the rain, too poor to hire anyone to my service...not that they would want to join me anyhow. (I'm not saying all rogues are cowards.)

Through all the Westmarch there is no corpse, or living being save for Andariel -- nothing more from which to summon fresh heroes to the slaughter. No trinkets to pawn for antidote (and no fruit to manufacture same).

I fear that I shall end my days hopeless and alone, the rogues' fate mine as well. Golem yet stands by me. All others have fled or fallen.

Farewell!

I remain...
Hen3ry

[Animation]

Kandrathe,

Are you pumping Lower Resist since you party with a Sorceress? Does it make sense to pump a skill for another player? Battle orders sure, but Lower Resist seems to have such diminishing returns. Just curious.

Lewis

[Brista]

I have to confess I thought Jarulf was a fire Iron Wolf

The Cold ones are quite good although for this build an aura merc can't be matched

[kandrathe]

I would take it to level 8-10 without +skills for now so with +skills it would eventually be arround lvl 15-18, and yes mostly to be a bigger helper for Hell difficulty. Cold sorceress has maxed cold mastery(20) for -115% or more with + skills along with my -60% should be able to break most cold resistance and cold immunes down to where we can still hurt them.

[Obi2Kenobi]

Poison Nova, Poison Dagger, Bone Spear and Bone spirit need very heavy investment to become good spells later on. They will most certainly suck if you put just 5 points in.

I resent that comment. 1 point poison nova has served me well many times in the past, since any poison damage stops all regeration. ;) If only I could raise my 2 second duration... Although, if you are a summoner, casting poison nova won't interrupt your fighting, so you could just cast it once every 2 seconds and refresh your curses. :)

As for Jarulf (the mercenary) I always get Jarulf if using a cold merc, and Scorch for a fire one. Lightning I don't care about the name. Although the name can spawn on any type (even a cold merc named Scorch). But Flux is a nice name for a lightning merc, since the damage can fluxuate between hits greatly. :)

[Obi2Kenobi]

Normal and Hell act 2 mercs give the same auras. Defensive is Defiance, Combat is Prayer, and Offensive is Blessed Aim. In Nightmare, Defensive is Holy Freeze, Combat is Thorns, and Offensive is Might. The advantage of getting a Normal merc instead of a Hell merc is that a mercenary hired in normal gets higher stats than those highered in Nightmare or Hell, and Nightmare gets higher than Hell. However, their is a common misconception that hiring a merc at lower levels gets higher stats (not true, only the difficulty determines the stats).

[Caaroid]

Hello

I am sorry to dissappoint you, but for breaking immunity, lower+Cold Mastery is practically useless.

As Jarulf pointed out in his damage mechanics thread, cold mastery gets applied ONLY IF THE TARGET IS NOT IMMUNE, that is only if the immunity has been broken.

That leaves your party with your 60% lower resist. For breaking immunities, that translates to 12%, so anything above 111% cold resist will stay immune - which is most of the cold immune monsters in the game.

In practice, even with a high level conviction AND lower resist cold immunes remain cold immunes many times, since they have cold resistances up to 200%.

Sorry for the bad news

Happy hunting!

[kandrathe]

Yes your points are true and I didn't mean to imply it was a silver bullet. We are trying to recruit a third player for our little group. And as you alluded, it is paladin with high conviction, but there is no perfect solution as you say and one must actually resort to alternative tactics. Still, with good planning, many things are easier.