Amazon Evade Bug

[SwordAzon]

I don't know if any of you amazons have noticed this bug (especially in pre 1.09). It's more a curse than a bug actually, coz when it happens, you have no choice but to go to menu and click: save and exit game ( or simply commit suicide and let the monsters kill you)

I first noticed this bug after i put my first point in the 'Evade' skill (at Clvl 24).
I was in the river of flame, fighting a pack of 5 Urdar, when it happened for the first time. As you already know, the 'Evade' skill allows you to dodge any kind of attack while moving. As I was running from them and shoting them with arrows, one of them swung his huge Stun Fist at me, but I dodged it while moving (I heard the grunt she makes when she dodges a melee attack). Suddenly, I found my self simply stuck to my spot and unable to move! When I tried to move, she would simply do a stationnary run! (moving her legs as if she was on a stationnary bike, but without actually moving over the ground). Worse, she couldn't even score a single hit on the 3 remaining Urdar that stood surrounding her. I swung my sword a thousand times, and I simply could not land a single hit!.

I tried using town portal. So I hit F8 then right-click. I clicked on the portal, and she was back in the Pandemonium Fortress, but when I tried to move, she did the same weird stationnary running movement again! I couldn't even walk over to my stash, or talk to Cain!

I had no choice but to save and exit ( and I uttered a thousand curses on Blizzard, because it happened before i found the way point, which meant that I had to do the River of Flame all over again!)

At first I thought it must have been some freak lock accident, but it happened again twice in Act 5, and nearly got me killed in the middle of a fight with those double-swinging bullmen.

Anyone know what I'm talking about?

[Guest]

sounds really bad :o

there's a bug like this for barbs, not sure how it happens. pallys also get it when disrupted at the begining of charge(but only lasts ~3 secs)

[kier]

Ever charged when slowed?

You run backwards, it's so nasty!

Kier

[whyBish]

I thought this was a known bug something to do with being hit(stunned?) while already in hit recovery?

[Pren]

I'd like to add on top of this bug, that the amazon passives make the game almost unplayable for non bowazons in 1.10.

A single monster will most likely prevent you from casting any spells, as every time he takes a swing your long cast is interrupted when you dodge.

Surrounded in melee combat, even without high blocking, you are constantly dodging attacks and having your own attacks cancelled, being unable to free yourself.

It's absurd.

[Guest]

It's absurd.

i feel the same way, even with 2 fps block(thanks to holy shield) and far more defence than a zon could get.

there's no point getting hit less if you can't do damage yourself, and then getting stuck in an animation when trying to run away. *sigh*

i wish melee zons could be like valkyries, these girls don't have any dodge animations, or hit recovery ones for that matter, and get good resists/ar/damage without spending a single gold piece.

[Nicator]

I can understand people complaining of characters unable to attack/spell over 4 frames everytime they are under attack and avoiding a hit.

But 2 frames... hmmm.. with the defense boost by holy shield, chances to being hit in hell, by a regular Act 4 or 5 monster and regardless of the chances to block, have dropped from the common v1.09d's ~70% to v1.10s' ~30%. Not that I like the 2 frames block animation (which I prefer over the usual 4 frames recovery animation), but I'm more worried about the resurrection of the zeal bug (first hit misses, all miss), because then my pally can't leech and it becomes a matter of time to see him naked at town.

i wish melee zons could be like valkyries, these girls don't have any dodge animations, or hit recovery ones for that matter, and get good resists/ar/damage without spending a single gold piece.

No recovery animation? I've seen my +2k HP valkyre unable to counter-attack by, to name a few, Udars, Frenzytaurs and Diablo. Maybe my mistake, but I do recall feeling sad for her everytime :(

[Guest]

but I'm more worried about the resurrection of the zeal bug (first hit misses, all miss

that doesn't happen much when you've got <30% chance to be hit.

it happens when you hold your attack button and go into recovery animation(block or hit), the game says you're blokcing/getting hit while you start attacking anyway, while the game still says you're blocking/getting hit, and cancels the skill. in zeal's case since the skill does 5, it cancels all 5 attacks.

what kind of def do you need for <30% or <40% chance to be hit in hell with a level 80 anyway? it doesn't seem very easy to achieve for me. i think i had like 9k def with a level 99 barb and had ~37%.

[Nicator]

while the game still says you're blocking/getting hit, and cancels the skill. in zeal's case since the skill does 5, it cancels all 5 attacks.

True, block or recovery animation. I was talking about all 5 swings missing, and there is, or was, no attack to defend of because the only monster remaining is/was stunned by my friendly act 5 merc. That happens when surrounded too, but I'll give up that scenario because hit/block can be happening. Level 87 paladin using ITD, from Lightsabre, 9,125 AR (big boost from level 23 enchant at Demon Limb) and lying character screen reporting, usually, ~83% chances to hit against regulars in act 4 and 5.

Although from my experience it happens 2 out of 10 zeal attacks, it isn't as healthy as missing 1 out of 5 swings on a single zeal. After all, receiving damage during 4, 8 or even 4+8 frames (assuming no zeal interruption) isn't as dangerous as receiving damage during 8+4+4+4+4(+8?) frames without leeching life.

what kind of def do you need for <30% or <40% chance to be hit in hell with a level 80 anyway? it doesn't seem very easy to achieve for me. i think i had like 9k def with a level 99 barb and had ~37%.

Same paladin, level 87. Defense, 1280; using level 21 Holy Shield, 8580. Regular Doom Caster, Outer Steppes, 30% chances to receive a hit; Flesh Spawner, same area, 28% chances to receive a hit.

[Guest]

I was talking about all 5 swings missing

same here, let's take it all over again:

1) you're attacking a monster
2) by holding your attack button
3) before the attack animation is over you go into block recovery
4) you start attacking again because of 2
5) because of 2 your attack gets canceled server side, but the client still shows it.

as easy as that. the swings aren't missing, they're canceled, they never happen. and as i said this happens with every attack(missile attack too) that isn't un-interuptable, it's just that with multi-attacks it's much worse and more noticeable.

for spells the effect isn't shown, but you still lose mana, btw.

the "easy" way is clicking each time you're attacking, which is tedious as hell, but it fixes it.

[Nicator]

same here, let's take it all over again:

1) you're attacking a monster
2) by holding your attack button
3) before the attack animation is over you go into block recovery
4) you start attacking again because of 2
5) because of 2 your attack gets canceled server side, but the client still shows it.

Case One, no bug:

1. I start a zeal attack over a monster, uncapable of fighting back because stun;
2. First swing hits, and I get visual confirmation by monster's life bar and life leech; and,
3. The following swings hit or miss, with their respective visual confirmation.

Case Two:
1. I start a zeal attack over a monster, uncapable of fighting back because stun;
2. First swing misses, and I get visual confirmation by monster's life bar and life leech; and,
3. The following swings misses, with their respective visual confirmation.

the swings aren't missing, they're canceled, they never happen. and as i said this happens with every attack(missile attack too) that isn't un-interuptable, it's just that with multi-attacks it's much worse and more noticeable.

I'm not aware of server side issues on single player, although I'm aware of what you're writting, and agree with you. Even so, in my case the paladin is punching a sand bag. I have noticed case two even against abandoned Towers, Catapults and Doors.

[Guest]

Case Two:
1. I start a zeal attack over a monster, uncapable of fighting back because stun;
2. First swing misses, and I get visual confirmation by monster's life bar and life leech; and,
3. The following swings misses, with their respective visual confirmation.

i don't believe, unless you have extreme lag, but then it shouldn't effect fighting structures.

if you're using a short range weapon(it happens with all, but is most easy to notice with short), with some angles the client starts the attack while the server says "you aren't close enough" and cancels it, you still though get "a visual representation".

I'm not aware of server side issues on single player

when you're running a single-player game you're running a server and a client, there's no different code between multi and single(except for fps cap).

[whyBish]

There is also the range bug to consider, very noticeable for dragon talon assassins. She will start attcking when she is out of range and hence no damage, so potentially the range issue, and the hit recovery issue are both affecting zeal.

[StateOLuvNTrust]

In my opinion:
If nothing else can be said for blocking, I can at least say this: I'd rather be blocklocked at 4 fps and taking no damage 3/4 of the time than in hit recovery at 6 fps and taking full damage. Most the dangerous monsters are gonna be doing over 1/12 your max life, so no matter how much blocklock sucks, it's still almost always a good trade for a quick death-by-blockless-stunlock.

[Nicator]

i don't believe, unless you have extreme lag, but then it shouldn't effect fighting structures.

I expected: "I tested it and got different results". Believings should be restricted to faith and hard to impossible to prove issues. Maybe I am asking for too much. <_<

Lag? No lag, Ping 10 (frame rate no issue), single player.

when you're running a single-player game you're running a server and a client, there's no different code between multi and single(except for fps cap).

Kind of difficult to accept desynch, and the known problems it carry on BNet and Lan/TCP-IP games, at Ping 10. And even then, I am writting over several hours sessions testing what I wrote.

[Ruvanal]

Kind of difficult to accept desynch, and the known problems it carry on BNet and Lan/TCP-IP games, at Ping 10. And even then, I am writting over several hours sessions testing what I wrote.

There are two primary ways to get desynch. The first is the more familiar problems that come from high ping levels; greatly delayed commands or commands completely lost. The second method of getting desynch is when the client processes an action in an entirely different manner than the server and this is completely independent of the ping between the client and the server.

Look at it this way, character is doing a 'slow attack sequence' on a monster (Zeal, Fend or just plain old very slow weapon). Part way through the attack the server calculates that the player is hit and goes into GH animation (get-hit or 'stun'); the client on the other hand does not process it in this way and continues to display the attack going off. With an attack that is being handled by a continuos holding down of the mouse button, the client will not send another attack until the previous is finished. When it does send the packet for the next attack the server may instead be showing that the player is still in GH animation and discard the command. By the time that the server is completed with the GH animation and ready to allow the start of another attack sequence, the client will be in the process of displaying an attack that is not really happening and will not be attempting to send any attack initiation packets. Meanwhile on the server side the game is treating the character as just standing there and the monster are free to continue having 'free' attacks on the player since the player is not actually attacking the monsters to cause them anything like their own GH animations. Since they have ample time for 'free' attacks there is a good chance to have the character back in GH or BL animation at he time the client is going to auto send another attack initiation packet. At no time is there any concern with the ping delay in this.

This is what I consider the most major 'bug' with the 1.10 game at this point. The Client and Server sides of the game are not actually 'playing' the same game. There are several points where this coming from to causes these problems.

First, I have observed that the pathing routines and speed processing of movement between the two is different to a considerable degree in many cases. This will leave the player at time attacking the wrong area because the server has the monster positioned in a very different manner than what the client displayed it at. The speed issue is most apparent if you really pay attention to the barbarian Whirlwind skill, the client is processing the movement along a leg of the WW at a faster rate than the server does and the server will not allow the initiation of the next leg (even on the client side) until it completes the leg it is working on. This is those very annoying pauses that can be seen with the skill in SP mode.

Second the two sides do not appear to be using the same criteria for determining if a hit occurs and the threshold points at which the GH and BL (or amazon D/A/E) should be getting used at. This can quickly lead to the client and server processing the combat in widely different manners.

Third is tied in with the first and is what whyBish brought up. The game is not correctly considering the weapon lengths when the attacks are started. This may in fact just be some bad positioning disagreement between the to sides, but it is hard to tell until the first part of the problem is corrected.

[Guest]

first: thanks for the long description of this problem. :)

Third is tied in with the first and is what whyBish brought up. The game is not correctly considering the weapon lengths when the attacks are started. This may in fact just be some bad positioning disagreement between the to sides, but it is hard to tell until the first part of the problem is corrected.

couldn't this just be bad conversion of tiles vs range, or maybe that one of the sides converts the tile/range up(like with an odd angle) while the other to the converts nearest or down? or that might of been what you said :unsure:

I expected: "I tested it and got different results". Believings should be restricted to faith and hard to impossible to prove issues. Maybe I am asking for too much.

no, what i meant is that "i don't believe of what you're saying is true". not that i was guessing, i've played the game enough to know what you said was incorrect.

i somehow broke quotes, the name part was working a couple of seconds ago?! :unsure:

[Nicator]

<!--QuoteBegin-Ruvanal Posted: Oct 19 2003+ 03:30 PM
--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(Ruvanal Posted: Oct 19 2003 @ 03:30 PM
)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteEBegin-->There are two primary ways to get desynch. The first is the more familiar problems that come from high ping levels; greatly delayed commands or commands completely lost. The second method of getting desynch is when the client processes an action in an entirely different manner than the server and this is completely independent of the ping between the client and the server.
[/quote]

I was aware on the first, but not of the second. The second method opens roads to desynch on every player actions started on one frame and developed over several.

no, what i meant is that "i don't believe of what you're saying is true". not that i was guessing, i've played the game enough to know what you said was incorrect.

Ok, you don't believe/accept what I wrote because your large experience says the contrary. Large experience on 1.10s? Stunning a high HP monster and zeal swinging over him at the same time? Well, I don't have that much experience there (maybe 50 total playing hours), so I just give up. :)

Now, if previous experience has any value here, please accept my credentials: 1.08 and 1.09 (# 13 on USEast Paladin Ladder) level 99 Paladins. :)

[Ruvanal]

couldn't this just be bad conversion of tiles vs range, or maybe that one of the sides converts the tile/range up(like with an odd angle) while the other to the converts nearest or down? or that might of been what you said :unsure:

I was referring more to the matter that some skills have used a preset targeting range at time in the earlier versions of the game (see the WW thread at the Phrozen Keeps coding forum). If the skill automatically puts a targeting range of 3 in while the player is using a dagger (range=1) you would end slashing at the air a lot.

Personaly, I just think it boils down to the positional desynch that is happening. Client thinks that the range is close enough and animates for that range, server only processes the ones that are really in range, but by this point you are 'desynched' as far as that attack is concerned.

The second method opens roads to desynch on every player actions started on one frame and developed over several.

Yes, but many will not readily note it for situations where they are are repeatedly clicking around the screen for the short timing results. It is when the time is tight like in melee combat (where getting disrupted is very timing dependent) and you have a system that is 'supposed' to correctly restart the next attack at the end of the last (continous mouse button) that you will more readily see the problem. It is repeated clicking of the mouse that can open the two sides up to some of the coding in the game that will 'attempt' to make sure that both sides are in synch. But I feel that is sloppy solution to a serious problem.

i somehow broke quotes, the name part was working a couple of seconds ago?!

Looks like a problem that happened once on the previous version of the AB forums. That got very ugly as all the quote got screwed up for awhile. If it persists, someone may need to contact the admins to look into it.

[Nicator]

It is when the time is tight like in melee combat (where getting disrupted is very timing dependent) and you have a system that is 'supposed' to correctly restart the next attack at the end of the last (continous mouse button) that you will more readily see the problem. It is repeated clicking of the mouse that can open the two sides up to some of the coding in the game that will 'attempt' to make sure that both sides are in synch. But I feel that is sloppy solution to a serious problem.

Do you think that this problem is enough to make 5 swings miss in a zeal attack against a door?