help about Imbue mechanics

[Stit]

Hello.

First of all, excuse me if it's a common question, but I'm new to this forum and didn't see it anywhere...
It's about using the Imbue reward of Charsi. I know that the higher level you are, the best mods you get, but following which rules ??
Here is a guess, and if anyone could infirm or confirm...


I've seen on Arreat Summit that most of the good mods are of level (mlvl ??) not greater than 40.
36 to get +1 to skills, 42 to get the prismatic prefix.
(By the way, I want to imbue a druid pelt, so I'm reading the circlets numbers, assuming it's the same)
In the Gambling section, I found that attributes are generated +6/-3 lvls from clvl. I thought that Charsi could work the same way...

So my guess is : to "be sure to have a chance" :) to have a prismatic pelt, I should go and see Charsi at level 42+3= 45, shouldn't I ??

(well, you could tell me that I should wait to 93, to get a chance to have a +2 druid skills, but I'm just not that patient) :lol:


Does all that "theory" make any sense ??
And by the way, do I have the same odds to have the prismatic pelt at clvl 45, 55, 78 ???
Is it increasing ??

Any answer would be much appreciated.

[Ruvanal]

Most of the references at Arreat Summit reguarding the application of prefixes and suffixes to items is baed on the way the game handled the affix prior to v1.07. The system had a major change in the way affixes are applied to items starting with v1.07. If you are playing v1.09 right now you can use this calculator to see what affixes will be possible on an item.
http://www.diabloii.nu/affixcalc/

For an Imbue, use the option that a rare item is being dropped by a monster and the ilvl=clvl+4. This will allow you to see what affixes are available on the item at different character levels.

I've seen on Arreat Summit that most of the good mods are of level (mlvl ??) not greater than 40.
Actually they are display the minimum affix level (alvl) required to allow the affix to appear. The alvl can be quite different than the ilvl that the item is generated at.

(By the way, I want to imbue a druid pelt, so I'm reading the circlets numbers, assuming it's the same)
Circlets often have affixes that cannot appear on other types of helms or the druid pelts. Therefore it is not a good one to be looking at to see what can be on item like the druid pelts. For example there are various res-all (Prismatic for one) prefixes that can appear on circlets that cannot appear on any other helm like item.

For example the +2 druid skills prefix that appears on the pelts is not the same one that appears on circlets. The one for pelts (and clubs) requires an alvl of 42+, while the one for circlets (and amulets) requires an alvl of 90+. To actually get the +2 skills on a pelt will depend on the qlvl (item level from armor/weapons internal data files). For a Wolf Head (qlvl=4) the required ilvl would be 44+, while for a Hunter's Guise (qlvl=46) would require an ilvl of 65+. So use the calculator above to see what you will be able to get. It also will have some information on the realative chances of actually getting specific affixe on the items.

[LavCat]

For an Imbue, use the option that a rare item is being dropped by a monster and the ilvl=clvl+4.  This will allow you to see what affixes are available on the item at different character levels.

I'm glad to know how to use the calculator for an imbue! I played with it but I could not get the form to accept an ilvl greater than 99. Is this a bug?

On a related topic, are the mechanics for imbue different in 1.10? In other words, if one has been saving up Charsi quests, would it be better to use them now or wait till the patch comes out?

[adeyke]

I think that, in almost all cases (the Annihilus drop being the exception), ilvl 99 is the maximum. At ilvl 99, you're guaranteed alvl 99 for all items, and there aren't any affixes that need more than that.

I'm not sure about imbue mechanics, but rares have been significantly improved. While in 1.09, the best ED possible on a rare weapon was 200%, in 1.10, it's 450%.

[LavCat]

If I understand correctly from this recent basin thread by Ruvanal

http://www.theamazonbasin.com/d2/forums/in...showtopic=31169

ilvl can be up to 127 (in 1.10). It may not matter for the affix selection, but probably would matter for subsequent cube formulas that use ilvl, such as the rare + 6 perfect skulls.

If the imbue formula ilvl = clvl+4 is correct, a 99 level character would get an item with a 103 ilvl. What I don't know is if the extra ilvl (103 vs. 99) makes a real world difference in what useful affixes one could get after cubing.

If I calculate correctly, a 99 level character with a 103 ilvl imbued item would end up with an ilvl 80 after cubing (vs. an ilvl of 78 if the starting ilvl were 99). I'm not sure how to get to the alvl from there. The affix calculator said 77, but I'm not certain I believe that, it seems too low. I am probably entering something wrong. I can't get the calculator to do the cubbing result directly, as it will not take ilvl values greater than 99.

Too bad it wouldn't help with giant threshers anyhow!

[Snorelax]

From the looks of the formula, the alvl generated would depend on the qlvl of the item. With Giant Threshers

ilvl = 80
qlvl = 89
Since ilvl < qlvl, ilvl = 89
Since ilvl > 99 - int(qlvl/2), alvl = ilvl *2 - 99 = 79

So with the Giant Thresher, your alvl should be 79. In fact, for any rare Giant Thresher that you cube with the 6 pgem + rare formula with any character, you'll get an alvl of 79.

[LavCat]

From the looks of the formula, the alvl generated would depend on the qlvl of the item. With Giant Threshers

ilvl = 80
qlvl = 89
Since ilvl < qlvl, ilvl = 89
Since ilvl > 99 - int(qlvl/2), alvl = ilvl *2 - 99 = 79

So with the Giant Thresher, your alvl should be 79. In fact, for any rare Giant Thresher that you cube with the 6 pgem + rare formula with any character, you'll get an alvl of 79.

I did not realize that if ilvl was less than qlvl, ilvl didn't matter?

I'll supply a rare Giant Thresher and six perfect skulls if you can provide the cube to test it in!

[Ruvanal]

I'll supply a rare Giant Thresher and six perfect skulls if you can provide the cube to test it in!

Better watch it, some of the modded games do have larger sized cubes capable of holding a lot more than the standard games horadric cube.

[LavCat]

Well, you and Snorelax would have to find a way to get that cube into USEast! I do have a Giant Thresher ready to imbue and almost two mules worth of perfect skulls.

A good discussion might be once 1.10 comes out whether it is better to imbue or to socket with the random socket recipe and try to make a runeword?

Another question is what are the best items to imbue that can be subsequently cubed? I'm thinking to use diadems and dimensional shards. Although granted a shard might be of limited interest to other than a sorceress. And now that I think about it, a fury dimensional shard would make an interesting melee weapon: 128 average damage, plus all the other attributes!

I might also try a corona, but I've only ever found one corona that I recall, and coronas do not have the magic level bonus.


Edit: spelling.

[adeyke]

And now that I think about it, a fury dimensional shard would make an interesting melee weapon: 128 average damage, plus all the other attributes!

I don't believe Fury would actually work on dimensional shard. The Orb item type is a subset of the Sorceress Item (which is a subset of Class Specific) and of Weapon. The Melee Weapon item type isn't actually part of the Orb item type hierarchy at all, and that's what Fury works on.

Unless I'm missing something, Venom is the only runeword that'll work on Orbs, as it works on any Weapon and has few enough runes.

[LavCat]

Thanks -- that Fury Shard would go nicely with my Thul/Io/Nef Wirt's Leg.

I went to runica: http://rune.yghe.net/

but their tables didn't really help. Orbs are not listed as a distinct weapon type. Seems not that many sorceresses make rune words with their shards. But at least for Venom I have all the runes. And Venom would give an enchant sorceress yet another type of damage.

If I am reading this thread right

http://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums/index.p...T&f=8&t=1961&s=

the poison from Venom might be a way around the 1.10 problem of an enchant sorceress doing close to zero total damage to a fire immune. The initial damage might not do much, but the poison should kick in with the next frame.

Another thought might be to give her mercenery my Pestilent Grim Scythe of Pestilence!

It's too bad the shards I have came with such poor mods. Imbuing is probably the better option.

[adeyke]

I used the weapon calculator thing linked in my sig for checking the runewords ;).

I am rather curious how the poison damage works with the pseudo-absorb thing. As poison is normally just a rate and a duration, it's not clear to me just how it will add up with the other damage types.

[LavCat]

I've looked at your weapon calculator before, Adeyke, but I confess I can't figure out how to use it. Are there instructions?

My sincere hope is that the negative damage components are a bug and will be fixed before I have to worry with it. Otherwise I plan to put a wand of LR on my weapon switch. I have some good ones, including hibernal, buzzing, and amber.


Edit: I just noticed that Hand of Justice has a -20% enemy fire resistance! An almost perfect weapon for an enchantress...of course there is the small matter of the runes.

[adeyke]

There are unfortunately no instructions yet. I intend to write them eventually, though.

For purposes of the runeword thing, all one has to do is select either a weapon from the weapon menu or a runeword from the runeword menu. It'll then change the other menu to have "(disallowed) " in front of all entries that don't work with the selected entry. So if you select Dimensional Shard, it'll leave only Venom without the "(disallowed) ".

[dizzle]

I thought that imbues got +6 for their alvl. Whatever. It just changes optimum imbue from 50-51 to 52-53. Cruel is 56, and the 6% ll mod is 57 iirc. It just depends on whether you want that in your suffix pool, crowding out amp damage and self-repair.

It's imbued eth War Pikes for me come 1.1

[adeyke]

There's nothing like that. Imbues just give ilvl of clvl + 4 (like a perfect gamble). Then alvl is calculated based on the qlvl, the ilvl and (when applicable) the maglvl. Depending on the item you're imbuing, the minimum required clvl varies.

A club (qlvl 1) would need clvl 52 to have a chance at cruel. A champion sword (qlvl 77) would need clvl 74 to have that chance. And anything with qlvl >= 78 (like a berserker axe) would always have a chance at cruel.

Also, there's very little affix pool dilution at higher levels. So you should pay attention to the minimum required clvl for imbues, but even imbuing at clvl 99 won't reduce your chances of the good affixes that much.

Here's a thread on the AB about this very topic.

War pikes do have qlvl 85, so their alvl is always at least 71. That means they'll always have cruel, master's and self-repair available, regardless of their ilvl.