Question about reverting Windows 10 back to 8.1

[Nystul]

Interesting. I had been under the notion that Windows 10 Pro, unlike Home, could control updates. Not sure from where. I'll have to look into this.

Meanwhile I checked with my friend this afternoon. I had some of the facts wrong. She was running Windows 7 and decided to try 10. The features of 10 that she didn't like were mostly if not all browser related, from what I could understand. She was unable to downgrade back to 7 and paid a local computer shop to wipe everything clean and go back to 7. She was unsure whether the cost included a new copy Windows 7 or not.

Those kinds of stories make me cringe. Possibly her issues could have been solved in a matter of seconds by changing a few settings? I mean there is certainly a case to be made for sticking to Win7, but just paying a shop all that money for a crude solution...

[kandrathe]

Those kinds of stories make me cringe. Possibly her issues could have been solved in a matter of seconds by changing a few settings? I mean there is certainly a case to be made for sticking to Win7, but just paying a shop all that money for a crude solution...

I went from 7 to 10, with really no problems. My sound driver spontaneously thinks I unplug and reconnect my head phones once in awhile. It's probably a Santa Cruz driver upgrade to fix it.

I preferred 7, as it seemed to perform better, but C'est la vie. I want patches and support, so must get on the WINTEL cash cow train. I mean, how can I justify new faster hardware without a more bloated cow of an OS and apps?

[Hammerskjold]

I preferred 7, as it seemed to perform better, but C'est la vie. I want patches and support,

Some of the negative reaction regarding 10 is not about -not- wanting patches and support. It's more to do with how MS handles it. IIRC in all versions of Win 7 (even in the older Vista), updates can be controlled and separated into essential\security, and features\optional updates etc.

This is not just a hypothetical problem, in one of my older but still useful machine, the latest driver for the GPU was not functioning correctly. I had to use an older version driver to get everything to work, if I used the "just update everything", it would have updated me back to the problematic newer GPU driver.

To get to the point, while I actually like many of the offline aspect of 10, their handling and general mindset on how to do updates, is not currently winning my confidence over.

so must get on the WINTEL cash cow train. I mean, how can I justify new faster hardware without a more bloated cow of an OS and apps?

Yep, it's designing and marketing software and hardware via the Harrison Bergeron method. If the figures are true, desktop hardware sales are stagnant. One area of growth can be found in mobile devices.

However I prefer another POV. Desktop hardware has largely reached a "good 'nuff" state for most people. Unless the user wants to run the latest 3D game, or use a high end 3D modelling software, or process super ne pas ultra high def video.

A desktop from 5 years ago can still do most of the average computing needs of most people. WINTEL is in a bind because not everyone is in a rush to upgrade desktop hardware every year. Especially enterprise level business, hell I know some companies who are still on XP level hardware, and still running XP(!?!).

[kandrathe]

Especially enterprise level business, hell I know some companies who are still on XP level hardware, and still running XP(!?!).

I did a project recently for a fortune 50 insurance company where they were paying Microsoft special support on server 2000 machines. Well past sunset, and a big risk in my opinion.

[LavCat]

I run Windows NT 4.0 server, but then I'm not paying Microsoft for support.

Where I work we run XP, but then that's not my problem.

[Nystul]

This is not just a hypothetical problem, in one of my older but still useful machine, the latest driver for the GPU was not functioning correctly. I had to use an older version driver to get everything to work, if I used the "just update everything", it would have updated me back to the problematic newer GPU driver.

You can disable driver updates and only get the Microsoft updates. This actually reminded to check my chipset drivers, and everything is way out of date. Definitely not being forced on me through Windows 10. But then I'm not seeing those chipset drivers as an optional or recommended update like I would with early versions of Windows. It's all or nothing. The degree of user control is much less than it used to be, because apparently us users screw things up more often than we fix them.

[Lissa]

Especially enterprise level business, hell I know some companies who are still on XP level hardware, and still running XP(!?!).

I did a project recently for a fortune 50 insurance company where they were paying Microsoft special support on server 2000 machines. Well past sunset, and a big risk in my opinion.

Microsoft will support anything* they've made for the right price. They still have special queues (only a person or two) that handle DOS (from 1.0 up to 6.22), but you better be ready to spend some money (as it requires a contract).

*the only thing Microsoft will not support, even if money is thrown their way, is MS Bob. They refuse to acknowledge MS Bob's existence.

[LavCat]

I drank the Kool-Aid. I think Windows 10 is better than 7. Not perfect, but good.

[LavCat]

Guess what, I just solved my major problem with Windows 10!

After I built this Windows 10 machine I added it to my network of a Windows 7 Professional client and a Windows NT 4.0 server. The original two computer network is described here:

http://www.lurkerlounge.com/forums/thread-16162.html

To accommodate the third machine I had to add an old router, serving as a simple switch. Eventually I may replace the router with a proper switch so I can go back to using jumbo frames, which the router does not support.

But all was not perfect. All three machines could ping each other. The NT server could access shares on the Windows 7 machine and on the Windows 10 machine. The Windows 7 machine could access shares on the NT server and on the Windows 10 machine. The Windows 10 machine could access shares on the Windows 7 machine. But the Windows 10 machine could not access anything on the NT server.

I spent much time with this initially but I was just beating my head against a wall. I put the problem aside for several weeks.

Today I made it my project to try to get this sorted out. Because it seemed to be more of a security issue than a problem with network connectivity, I focused on reading up on security.

It turned out the issue was with NT Lan Manager (NTLM) security.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NT_LAN_Manager

The workaround was to go into group policy, local security policy, network security: LAN Manager authentication level, and select "Send LM & NTLM - use NTLMv2 session security if negotiated".

While this worked fine, I thought it would be better if I could enable higher security. I went into the NT registry and enabled NTLMv2 and disabled LM and NTLM. I changed the Windows 10 security policy to use only NTLMv2.

Now to reboot and see what happens...


Edit: I couldn't get NTLMv2 to work. I disabled LM and am using NTLM. All three computers can see each other. This network does not connect to the internet so I hope security is not that big an issue.

Now if I can only figure out how to arrange the Windows 10 desktop icons so they will stay put the way I want them.

[kandrathe]

Now if I can only figure out how to arrange the Windows 10 desktop icons so they will stay put the way I want them.

I use a bit of 10$ software from Stardock called Fences. You create one or more meta boxes to put the icons into. I separate icons families much like folders on my iPhone.

It also allows for a "hide desktop icons" option.

http://www.stardock.com/products/fences/download.asp

[LavCat]

The icon rearranging does not yet bother me $10 worth. Particularly when there is a workaround, which is to modify the shortcuts in the order of desired placement, and then sort by date modified.

In Windows one can show/hide the desktop icons with two clicks. Being able to accomplish this with a doubleclick is not a huge advantage.

Now, if someone offered the functionality of removing the shortcut symbol from the icons, the way one can in NT, I might be more interested.

[Tal]

The icon rearranging does not yet bother me $10 worth. Particularly when there is a workaround, which is to modify the shortcuts in the order of desired placement, and then sort by date modified.

In Windows one can show/hide the desktop icons with two clicks. Being able to accomplish this with a doubleclick is not a huge advantage.

Now, if someone offered the functionality of removing the shortcut symbol from the icons, the way one can in NT, I might be more interested.

Its been well over a decade since I touched a NT machine but Rocket Dock functions much the same as Stardock for free. You can customize the icons fairly easily too.

[LavCat]

Its been well over a decade since I touched a NT machine but Rocket Dock functions much the same as Stardock for free. You can customize the icons fairly easily too.

According to their site Rocket Dock does not support 64-bit Windows.

If you meant to help me for NT, NT already handles icons the way I want them. It's Windows 10 that has the icon annoyance. I also wish Windows 10 (and Windows 7) would bring back the option of the little hand symbol on icons for shared resources.