Gearing up for release

[Magicbag]

I've been proceeding with intentional ignorance regarding D3 until an official release date was up. Now that one exists, I'd like to start planning a build. My play style for D2 was pretty reckless. I was a firewall magicfind sorc from day1, even when this was considered crazy.

I loved to be part of a team, but because of the lack of guild support, I found that I spent a lot of time soloing. I logged into 5 machines at once to up the difficulty and rewards.

With D3, this approach seems impractical and unnecessary. Now that the skills seem more solidified, I'm interested in community feedback on best class/build based on a survivalist approach. Ideally, I'd like to attempt a build that is capable of soloing on high difficulties through skill and patience. From a cursory review the witch doctor seems like it might be best suited to this role. Efficient, high DPS dots, with tanky and/or explosive pets seem like interesting skills for the build.

I'm just flexing my research muscles and trying to narrow down my initial investigation scope. I know almost nothing about the game at this point. Please be gentle

[Frag]

Reckless, survivable & geared towards finding gear to me says Barbarian. They have a pair of skills that when runed up the amount of gear you find. They also have a few abilities that drastically should increase your survivability, such as +50% armor (mitigation against all sources) in the passives. If you wanted something from range, Witch Doctor is most likely the correct choice.

YMMV.

[Magicbag]

Reckless, survivable & geared towards finding gear to me says Barbarian. They have a pair of skills that when runed up the amount of gear you find. They also have a few abilities that drastically should increase your survivability, such as +50% armor (mitigation against all sources) in the passives. If you wanted something from range, Witch Doctor is most likely the correct choice.

YMMV.

I'll expand the scope to include Barb, thanks. The original intent was to avoid reckless this go around, but perhaps a two character balance for whichever mood strikes me is the best way to go.

[FireIceTalon]

I'm going to keep it traditional for now in the spirit of D1, and make a DH, Barb, and Wizard. Yes, I know the first two werent in D1 but DH is closest class to Rogue, and Barb closest to Warrior. I've heard that DH is a bit overpowered (see the Reign of Vengeance skill), but I am kinda glad in a way since archer classes have been traditionally underpowered in the Diablo series. Anyway, cant wait for the release. This game is going to be like crack in pixel form I bet.

[Mavfin]

This game is going to be like crack in pixel form I bet.

Now there's definitely some truth from you.

[FireIceTalon]

I would never lie to ya

I made my battletag last week: BlueDragon#1725, and I will be playing on the US region - so those who wish to game with me (or perhaps avoid me ) know. I just hope my usernames from Diablo 1 don't get stolen ^^

Really liking the Rune Stone system also, it applies to skills instead of items, and I really dig the fact that you can use ALL the skills in this game instead of having to worry about particular builds as in D2:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=end...NoOaD-trB0

[Lissa]

I've heard that DH is a bit overpowered (see the Reign of Vengeance skill), but I am kinda glad in a way since archer classes have been traditionally underpowered in the Diablo series.

Wow...just wow...you really think that? I guess you never saw someone that could play the rogue like some of the people I know and played with. With the right items, a Rogue was unstoppable. Windforce (especially if you knew how to work it) or the Needler after they fixed the attack speed would allow you to pin Diablo in place. Ever seen Laz and the wenches do the lock dance, watch a rogue with a Needler and you'll see how silly the Rogue could be. And in D2, before they capped the number of arrows on MS and Strafe, just have a Bowzon run before you MSing like mad and pick up the loot lying on the ground. Archer classes weren't underpowered in D1 or D2, it just took figuring out how to play them to maximum effect and when you did, they were grossly OP.

[FireIceTalon]

Ahem, I dont think it...I know it! No offense, but I literally laughed out loud upon reading your statement that I haven't seen a great skilled rogue in action, that's akin to saying something like Michael Jordan hasn't seen a good basketball player dunk before . I suggest you go to www.youtube.com/fireicetalon - watch a few of the vids, and take some notes before making such preposterous notions. As one of the best and most experienced Rogue players to ever play D1 - someone who has lvled multiple rogues to clvl 50 and found all the best gear in the game, mastered playing the low-ac healing rogue variant in hell/hell, and was one of the players to revolutionize the dynamics of D1 PvP with a Bow Rogue using auto-aim skill (along with Shade, Anti-Hero, Hariel, BadWarrior, and a few other exceptional rogues), I can assure you that I would almost certainly make anyone you played with look like a total amateur in comparison (both in terms of items, game mechanics/actual skill). As would the other players I mentioned above. There is absolutely no trick or skill with a bow rogue that anyone you have played with knows, that I don't. By the time I master D3, I will probably have forgotten more about Rogue gaming on D1 than most people will ever know. Anyways...

Yes, Rogues have the fastest attack rate, and ability to stun do to their massive dexterity, but they also do the smallest dmg overall (both actual dmg, and dps), and they are a rather fragile class - less hp than a warrior, and less mana than a sorc. While they have the highest AC, they are still more prone to get hit compared to a Warrior or Sorc using shield who also have have overall high AC. Warrior and Sorc on the contrary, are POWER HOUSE classes, that are capable of taking more dmg and dealing out more as well, in both PvM and PvP. The rogue is a great class in terms of the skill required to use it as well as its versatility, and it is really my fav class for these reasons to begin with - it is a true gamers class, but in general, they are doing the smallest dmg of the 3 classes, and are more fragile overall. A rogue with perfect gear and playing with high ac in certain PvM situations CAN be over powered, but certainly no more so than a well geared char of the other classes, and in PvP....just no. Bow Rogue is by far the hardest class to master in dueling and even when you DO master it, they are suffering the most from desync issues compared to Warrior or Sorc who are less fragile. Windforce and Needler btw, are two of the worst bows in the game for a high lvl rogue. Massive Bow of Swiftness ftw! But a high lvl Rogue doesn't even need swiftness in PvM, Emerald Heavens is probably an even better choice overall, unless you play low ac healer and need the dps for crowd control.

As far as D2 goes, I cant really comment here as I never got heavily into that game since I thought it was a disappointment in comparison to the original. But almost everyone I talk to says the Amazon was a fragile, low dmg class, and was basically a glass cannon class even more than the D1 Rogue was. Granted I am just taking their word for it, but this is what almost every serious d2 player has said that i have discoursed with. And almost every PvP video ive watched of them, they were getting eaten alive by Barbs, much in the same way that Warrior usually beats Rogue on D1 - though that isnt saying a whole lot since D1 PvP is clearly more balanced in general.

[Lissa]

Ahem, I dont think it...I know it! No offense, but I literally laughed out loud upon reading your statement that I haven't seen a great skilled rogue in action, that's akin to saying something like Michael Jordan hasn't seen a good basketball player dunk before . I suggest you go to www.youtube.com/fireicetalon - watch a few of the vids, and take some notes before making such preposterous notions. As one of the best and most experienced Rogue players to ever play D1 - someone who has lvled multiple rogues to clvl 50 and found all the best gear in the game, mastered playing the low-ac healing rogue variant in hell/hell, and was one of the players to revolutionize the dynamics of D1 PvP with a Bow Rogue using auto-aim skill (along with Shade, Anti-Hero, Hariel, BadWarrior, and a few other exceptional rogues), I can assure you that I would almost certainly make anyone you played with look like a total amateur in comparison (both in terms of items, game mechanics/actual skill). As would the other players I mentioned above. There is absolutely no trick or skill with a bow rogue that anyone you have played with knows, that I don't. By the time I master D3, I will probably have forgotten more about Rogue gaming on D1 than most people will ever know. Anyways...

Yes, Rogues have the fastest attack rate, and ability to stun do to their massive dexterity, but they also do the smallest dmg overall (both actual dmg, and dps), and they are a rather fragile class - less hp than a warrior, and less mana than a sorc. While they have the highest AC, they are still more prone to get hit compared to a Warrior or Sorc using shield who also have have overall high AC. Warrior and Sorc on the contrary, are POWER HOUSE classes, that are capable of taking more dmg and dealing out more as well, in both PvM and PvP. The rogue is a great class in terms of the skill required to use it as well as its versatility, and it is really my fav class for these reasons to begin with - it is a true gamers class, but in general, they are doing the smallest dmg of the 3 classes, and are more fragile overall. A rogue with perfect gear and playing with high ac in certain PvM situations CAN be over powered, but certainly no more so than a well geared char of the other classes, and in PvP....just no. Bow Rogue is by far the hardest class to master in dueling and even when you DO master it, they are suffering the most from desync issues compared to Warrior or Sorc who are less fragile. Windforce and Needler btw, are two of the worst bows in the game for a high lvl rogue. Massive Bow of Swiftness ftw! But a high lvl Rogue doesn't even need swiftness in PvM, Emerald Heavens is probably an even better choice overall, unless you play low ac healer and need the dps for crowd control.

As far as D2 goes, I cant really comment here as I never got heavily into that game since I thought it was a disappointment in comparison to the original. But almost everyone I talk to says the Amazon was a fragile, low dmg class, and was basically a glass cannon class even more than the D1 Rogue was. Granted I am just taking their word for it, but this is what almost every serious d2 player has said that i have discoursed with. And almost every PvP video ive watched of them, they were getting eaten alive by Barbs, much in the same way that Warrior usually beats Rogue on D1 - though that isnt saying a whole lot since D1 PvP is clearly more balanced in general.

All I have to say is...

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[FireIceTalon]

Ahem, I dont think it...I know it! No offense, but I literally laughed out loud upon reading your statement that I haven't seen a great skilled rogue in action, that's akin to saying something like Michael Jordan hasn't seen a good basketball player dunk before . I suggest you go to www.youtube.com/fireicetalon - watch a few of the vids, and take some notes before making such preposterous notions. As one of the best and most experienced Rogue players to ever play D1 - someone who has lvled multiple rogues to clvl 50 and found all the best gear in the game, mastered playing the low-ac healing rogue variant in hell/hell, and was one of the players to revolutionize the dynamics of D1 PvP with a Bow Rogue using auto-aim skill (along with Shade, Anti-Hero, Hariel, BadWarrior, and a few other exceptional rogues), I can assure you that I would almost certainly make anyone you played with look like a total amateur in comparison (both in terms of items, game mechanics/actual skill). As would the other players I mentioned above. There is absolutely no trick or skill with a bow rogue that anyone you have played with knows, that I don't. By the time I master D3, I will probably have forgotten more about Rogue gaming on D1 than most people will ever know. Anyways...

Yes, Rogues have the fastest attack rate, and ability to stun do to their massive dexterity, but they also do the smallest dmg overall (both actual dmg, and dps), and they are a rather fragile class - less hp than a warrior, and less mana than a sorc. While they have the highest AC, they are still more prone to get hit compared to a Warrior or Sorc using shield who also have have overall high AC. Warrior and Sorc on the contrary, are POWER HOUSE classes, that are capable of taking more dmg and dealing out more as well, in both PvM and PvP. The rogue is a great class in terms of the skill required to use it as well as its versatility, and it is really my fav class for these reasons to begin with - it is a true gamers class, but in general, they are doing the smallest dmg of the 3 classes, and are more fragile overall. A rogue with perfect gear and playing with high ac in certain PvM situations CAN be over powered, but certainly no more so than a well geared char of the other classes, and in PvP....just no. Bow Rogue is by far the hardest class to master in dueling and even when you DO master it, they are suffering the most from desync issues compared to Warrior or Sorc who are less fragile. Windforce and Needler btw, are two of the worst bows in the game for a high lvl rogue. Massive Bow of Swiftness ftw! But a high lvl Rogue doesn't even need swiftness in PvM, Emerald Heavens is probably an even better choice overall, unless you play low ac healer and need the dps for crowd control.

As far as D2 goes, I cant really comment here as I never got heavily into that game since I thought it was a disappointment in comparison to the original. But almost everyone I talk to says the Amazon was a fragile, low dmg class, and was basically a glass cannon class even more than the D1 Rogue was. Granted I am just taking their word for it, but this is what almost every serious d2 player has said that i have discoursed with. And almost every PvP video ive watched of them, they were getting eaten alive by Barbs, much in the same way that Warrior usually beats Rogue on D1 - though that isnt saying a whole lot since D1 PvP is clearly more balanced in general.

All I have to say is...

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Which translates to: FIT has more knowledge and experience of rogue gaming than I do, and I was clearly talking out of my ass - but instead of swallowing my pride and admitting that I was perhaps wrong, ill just give him the good ol' teenage rebellion classic retort: "bahahahahahahaa" . *smooches*

P.S. Unless you actually have something intelligent to say, and put aside the trolling, please don't bother with a reply.

[Hammerskjold]

All I have to say is...

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Yeah...this is about the best that can be expected really.

Red Rascal, oops RedRadical formerly AngryCommie-dian formerly Fries-rIce-Tacos gives great material. Mostly for humour sake not really for any actual information or analysis. He's definitely the Michael Jordan of Diablo Comedy in my books.

Having said that, I certainly will never disparage someone who served their country proudly like Red Rascal!

[Lissa]

Ahem, I dont think it...I know it! No offense, but I literally laughed out loud upon reading your statement that I haven't seen a great skilled rogue in action, that's akin to saying something like Michael Jordan hasn't seen a good basketball player dunk before . I suggest you go to www.youtube.com/fireicetalon - watch a few of the vids, and take some notes before making such preposterous notions. As one of the best and most experienced Rogue players to ever play D1 - someone who has lvled multiple rogues to clvl 50 and found all the best gear in the game, mastered playing the low-ac healing rogue variant in hell/hell, and was one of the players to revolutionize the dynamics of D1 PvP with a Bow Rogue using auto-aim skill (along with Shade, Anti-Hero, Hariel, BadWarrior, and a few other exceptional rogues), I can assure you that I would almost certainly make anyone you played with look like a total amateur in comparison (both in terms of items, game mechanics/actual skill). As would the other players I mentioned above. There is absolutely no trick or skill with a bow rogue that anyone you have played with knows, that I don't. By the time I master D3, I will probably have forgotten more about Rogue gaming on D1 than most people will ever know. Anyways...

Yes, Rogues have the fastest attack rate, and ability to stun do to their massive dexterity, but they also do the smallest dmg overall (both actual dmg, and dps), and they are a rather fragile class - less hp than a warrior, and less mana than a sorc. While they have the highest AC, they are still more prone to get hit compared to a Warrior or Sorc using shield who also have have overall high AC. Warrior and Sorc on the contrary, are POWER HOUSE classes, that are capable of taking more dmg and dealing out more as well, in both PvM and PvP. The rogue is a great class in terms of the skill required to use it as well as its versatility, and it is really my fav class for these reasons to begin with - it is a true gamers class, but in general, they are doing the smallest dmg of the 3 classes, and are more fragile overall. A rogue with perfect gear and playing with high ac in certain PvM situations CAN be over powered, but certainly no more so than a well geared char of the other classes, and in PvP....just no. Bow Rogue is by far the hardest class to master in dueling and even when you DO master it, they are suffering the most from desync issues compared to Warrior or Sorc who are less fragile. Windforce and Needler btw, are two of the worst bows in the game for a high lvl rogue. Massive Bow of Swiftness ftw! But a high lvl Rogue doesn't even need swiftness in PvM, Emerald Heavens is probably an even better choice overall, unless you play low ac healer and need the dps for crowd control.

As far as D2 goes, I cant really comment here as I never got heavily into that game since I thought it was a disappointment in comparison to the original. But almost everyone I talk to says the Amazon was a fragile, low dmg class, and was basically a glass cannon class even more than the D1 Rogue was. Granted I am just taking their word for it, but this is what almost every serious d2 player has said that i have discoursed with. And almost every PvP video ive watched of them, they were getting eaten alive by Barbs, much in the same way that Warrior usually beats Rogue on D1 - though that isnt saying a whole lot since D1 PvP is clearly more balanced in general.

All I have to say is...

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Which translates to: FIT has more knowledge and experience of rogue gaming than I do, and I was clearly talking out of my ass - but instead of swallowing my pride and admitting that I was perhaps wrong, ill just give him the good ol' teenage rebellion classic retort: "bahahahahahahaa" . *smooches*

P.S. Unless you actually have something intelligent to say, and put aside the trolling, please don't bother with a reply.

No, the reason I said what I said is because you really don't understand. You give all these reasons and then make the counter arguement for why the Rogue is better or leave it out entirely. A properly played rogue will never get hit, ever. Who cares about fragility when you can kill things off screen? Who cares if you can't one shot kill something if it can never actually hit you? This is why you got the "BAHAHAHA" commment. You say you know much, but your commentary shows you know little.

Now, I may not be the best Rogue that ever lived, but I'm sure a fair number of people on these forums that have played with me back in the day know I know the class. So again, I reiterate,

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[FireIceTalon]

Ahem, I dont think it...I know it! No offense, but I literally laughed out loud upon reading your statement that I haven't seen a great skilled rogue in action, that's akin to saying something like Michael Jordan hasn't seen a good basketball player dunk before . I suggest you go to www.youtube.com/fireicetalon - watch a few of the vids, and take some notes before making such preposterous notions. As one of the best and most experienced Rogue players to ever play D1 - someone who has lvled multiple rogues to clvl 50 and found all the best gear in the game, mastered playing the low-ac healing rogue variant in hell/hell, and was one of the players to revolutionize the dynamics of D1 PvP with a Bow Rogue using auto-aim skill (along with Shade, Anti-Hero, Hariel, BadWarrior, and a few other exceptional rogues), I can assure you that I would almost certainly make anyone you played with look like a total amateur in comparison (both in terms of items, game mechanics/actual skill). As would the other players I mentioned above. There is absolutely no trick or skill with a bow rogue that anyone you have played with knows, that I don't. By the time I master D3, I will probably have forgotten more about Rogue gaming on D1 than most people will ever know. Anyways...

Yes, Rogues have the fastest attack rate, and ability to stun do to their massive dexterity, but they also do the smallest dmg overall (both actual dmg, and dps), and they are a rather fragile class - less hp than a warrior, and less mana than a sorc. While they have the highest AC, they are still more prone to get hit compared to a Warrior or Sorc using shield who also have have overall high AC. Warrior and Sorc on the contrary, are POWER HOUSE classes, that are capable of taking more dmg and dealing out more as well, in both PvM and PvP. The rogue is a great class in terms of the skill required to use it as well as its versatility, and it is really my fav class for these reasons to begin with - it is a true gamers class, but in general, they are doing the smallest dmg of the 3 classes, and are more fragile overall. A rogue with perfect gear and playing with high ac in certain PvM situations CAN be over powered, but certainly no more so than a well geared char of the other classes, and in PvP....just no. Bow Rogue is by far the hardest class to master in dueling and even when you DO master it, they are suffering the most from desync issues compared to Warrior or Sorc who are less fragile. Windforce and Needler btw, are two of the worst bows in the game for a high lvl rogue. Massive Bow of Swiftness ftw! But a high lvl Rogue doesn't even need swiftness in PvM, Emerald Heavens is probably an even better choice overall, unless you play low ac healer and need the dps for crowd control.

As far as D2 goes, I cant really comment here as I never got heavily into that game since I thought it was a disappointment in comparison to the original. But almost everyone I talk to says the Amazon was a fragile, low dmg class, and was basically a glass cannon class even more than the D1 Rogue was. Granted I am just taking their word for it, but this is what almost every serious d2 player has said that i have discoursed with. And almost every PvP video ive watched of them, they were getting eaten alive by Barbs, much in the same way that Warrior usually beats Rogue on D1 - though that isnt saying a whole lot since D1 PvP is clearly more balanced in general.

All I have to say is...

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Which translates to: FIT has more knowledge and experience of rogue gaming than I do, and I was clearly talking out of my ass - but instead of swallowing my pride and admitting that I was perhaps wrong, ill just give him the good ol' teenage rebellion classic retort: "bahahahahahahaa" . *smooches*

P.S. Unless you actually have something intelligent to say, and put aside the trolling, please don't bother with a reply.

No, the reason I said what I said is because you really don't understand. You give all these reasons and then make the counter arguement for why the Rogue is better or leave it out entirely. A properly played rogue will never get hit, ever. Who cares about fragility when you can kill things off screen? Who cares if you can't one shot kill something if it can never actually hit you? This is why you got the "BAHAHAHA" commment. You say you know much, but your commentary shows you know little.

Now, I may not be the best Rogue that ever lived, but I'm sure a fair number of people on these forums that have played with me back in the day know I know the class. So again, I reiterate,

BAHAHAHAHAHAHA

More like you WISH my commentary showed I know little But who cares about commentary anyway, I have vids as well as tons of gaming partners that will vouch for my abilities and skill - whom are also fine players in their own right.

Define a "properly" played rogue. Because unless you creep lvls inch by inch and take an hour just to clear one section, YOU WILL get hit, just for the fact monsters have a 5% auto-hit to begin with REGARDLESS of how high how your armor class is, not to mention that even with maximum beneficial high ac, you are wrong - it is NOT a guarantee that you will never be hit. I play with almost 300 ac on my Bow Rogue in hell/hell, and even I still get hit occasionally, especially in the presence of Lava Maws or Maelstroms. Most people I know like to play high end chars in hell/hell at a brisk pace, whether soloing or co-op. If I want to play without trying to even get so much as a scratch, I easily could, but why do so, when fast paced action is not only far less time consuming, but also way more fun? I don't play hell/hell like an Ironman, cause I would be bored to tears. And unless you play in such a way, you WILL be hit on occasion. There is no avoiding it unless you game like a snail. But to say I have never seen a high lvl rogue in action before, when I have cleared countless hell/hell's in under 15 mins in blitz co-op action, as well as help to set the standard for bow rogue PvP tactics, is just a foolish statement, to put it lightly. The point is, there isn't a single thing that anyone you know, could teach me about playing a bow rogue, or either of the other classes for that matter. More than likely, it would be the reverse.

I never made any argument that Rogue was the best class, just my personal favorite. There is no best class really because all of them are quite efficient in the right hands, and at high lvls with top notch gear, all 3 are OP. But if we are making comparisons between the classes regarding dps, and the ability to withstand big dmg, the rogue is the lowest of the 3 classes on both accounts. If there is any class that defines the term "over powered" on Diablo 1, it is the Sorcerer - so much to the point that people play this class with cursed items because a high end Sorc with uber gear just destroys everything in his path with ease - minus the 2-3 monster types that are triple immune. Any class you can play naked or with cursed items is OP. Rogue and Warrior on the other hand, are not capable of this as they are much more item dependent with a lower mana economy, especially warriors.

Plus you didn't even address the PvP aspect of D1, where Rogue is by far the hardest class to both learn and play, as evidenced by the fact there have always been a handy supply excellent PvP warriors and sorcs, but a rather low population of competitive PvP bow rogues. Also, in the various international tournaments with high level playing fields, the overall results for bow Rogues has been uneven at best, even for the top ones....warrs and sorcs have typically dominated, which doesn't really come a surprise: bow rogues are fragile and very difficult to play, even if you an exceptional player. It is that simple.

[Uncovered1]

the D1 players today were laughing at this so lets just get into it.....
ok, so first off, from my D1 experience FIT (here as the Redradical) is the BEST Rogue of all time... this is just coming from anyone who actually still plays D1, not someone who moved along. I believe fit was the guy who really kept bow rogues in style by proving they are superior to melee rogues which can be ridiculous at times. He plays the pvp in a landscape (which quite honest just sucks for rogues atm) and does the absolute best at it. with my sorc I have played more against fit than any other dueler. at times I know where hes going to go he just gets off the cast a millisecond quicker and I cant counter in time... thats what the rogue game is about, outspeeding your opponent and landing punches in bunches because you have 0 power. (in terms of tanking shots or dmg)

secondly, wtf is with that talk about the needler and windforce??????? these are just garbage bows. most people have moved on to D2 and thats fine, I would just expect most to view the stats and kind of remember the makeup of D1 before saying these bows . . . absolutely suck. needler is just that, getting hit with a pine needle or a damp sponge. even a warriors/swiftness goes a better job and hitting the top speed and dealing dmg, of a viscious/swift. eventually if youre a big boy you need a mbos, thats the 90% choice for pvp and also a decent one for pvm. the other one for pvp is elemtental bows (which FIT made famous) but in pvm you can use anything decent really- mbos,elemental,obs/hev,sav/hev. .. etc. speaking of sav heav I keep finding perfect ones to near perfect ones. they are much better for lower lvl rogs than crappy windforces. WF knockback is just too glitchy on certain enemies to work for every lvl, and there is 0 resists, 0 faster attack speed, and a measly +5 to str. in a nutshell... you get incosistant dmg that keeps enemies out of stun and doesnt add to your resists or tubes.

and the needler just sucks...again.

[Lissa]

the D1 players today were laughing at this so lets just get into it.....
ok, so first off, from my D1 experience FIT (here as the Redradical) is the BEST Rogue of all time... this is just coming from anyone who actually still plays D1, not someone who moved along. I believe fit was the guy who really kept bow rogues in style by proving they are superior to melee rogues which can be ridiculous at times. He plays the pvp in a landscape (which quite honest just sucks for rogues atm) and does the absolute best at it. with my sorc I have played more against fit than any other dueler. at times I know where hes going to go he just gets off the cast a millisecond quicker and I cant counter in time... thats what the rogue game is about, outspeeding your opponent and landing punches in bunches because you have 0 power. (in terms of tanking shots or dmg)

secondly, wtf is with that talk about the needler and windforce??????? these are just garbage bows. most people have moved on to D2 and thats fine, I would just expect most to view the stats and kind of remember the makeup of D1 before saying these bows . . . absolutely suck. needler is just that, getting hit with a pine needle or a damp sponge. even a warriors/swiftness goes a better job and hitting the top speed and dealing dmg, of a viscious/swift. eventually if youre a big boy you need a mbos, thats the 90% choice for pvp and also a decent one for pvm. the other one for pvp is elemtental bows (which FIT made famous) but in pvm you can use anything decent really- mbos,elemental,obs/hev,sav/hev. .. etc. speaking of sav heav I keep finding perfect ones to near perfect ones. they are much better for lower lvl rogs than crappy windforces. WF knockback is just too glitchy on certain enemies to work for every lvl, and there is 0 resists, 0 faster attack speed, and a measly +5 to str. in a nutshell... you get incosistant dmg that keeps enemies out of stun and doesnt add to your resists or tubes.

and the needler just sucks...again.

LMAO. You people really don't know how effective those two bows are. Evidently, you two have never seen someone that can use Windforce effectively. Someone that knows how to use it effectively can do some amazing things (like knocking Diablo out of his little hidey hole allowing you to loot him quickly without ever needing to activate the mobs in his room). Both your and FIT's comments show you haven't mastered the Rogue at all. If you had, you'd know how useful the knockback on Windforce actually is. Likewise, you'd realize that Needler isn't bad because it has something the swiftness bows don't, it fires faster thus allowing you a better chance of locking up another player. Using a bow of swiftness, someone can escape before the next arrow hits, with needler, someone that's sufficiently fast with their clicking, it's impossible to escape because the arrows are hitting too quick.

Trust me, you two really don't know as much as you think you know about Rogues and it's showing.

Edit: And nice try FIT making another account to try to bolster yourself. Really, that just shows how silly you really are.

[FireIceTalon]

the D1 players today were laughing at this so lets just get into it.....
ok, so first off, from my D1 experience FIT (here as the Redradical) is the BEST Rogue of all time... this is just coming from anyone who actually still plays D1, not someone who moved along. I believe fit was the guy who really kept bow rogues in style by proving they are superior to melee rogues which can be ridiculous at times. He plays the pvp in a landscape (which quite honest just sucks for rogues atm) and does the absolute best at it. with my sorc I have played more against fit than any other dueler. at times I know where hes going to go he just gets off the cast a millisecond quicker and I cant counter in time... thats what the rogue game is about, outspeeding your opponent and landing punches in bunches because you have 0 power. (in terms of tanking shots or dmg)

secondly, wtf is with that talk about the needler and windforce??????? these are just garbage bows. most people have moved on to D2 and thats fine, I would just expect most to view the stats and kind of remember the makeup of D1 before saying these bows . . . absolutely suck. needler is just that, getting hit with a pine needle or a damp sponge. even a warriors/swiftness goes a better job and hitting the top speed and dealing dmg, of a viscious/swift. eventually if youre a big boy you need a mbos, thats the 90% choice for pvp and also a decent one for pvm. the other one for pvp is elemtental bows (which FIT made famous) but in pvm you can use anything decent really- mbos,elemental,obs/hev,sav/hev. .. etc. speaking of sav heav I keep finding perfect ones to near perfect ones. they are much better for lower lvl rogs than crappy windforces. WF knockback is just too glitchy on certain enemies to work for every lvl, and there is 0 resists, 0 faster attack speed, and a measly +5 to str. in a nutshell... you get incosistant dmg that keeps enemies out of stun and doesnt add to your resists or tubes.

and the needler just sucks...again.

LMAO. You people really don't know how effective those two bows are. Evidently, you two have never seen someone that can use Windforce effectively. Someone that knows how to use it effectively can do some amazing things (like knocking Diablo out of his little hidey hole allowing you to loot him quickly without ever needing to activate the mobs in his room). Both your and FIT's comments show you haven't mastered the Rogue at all. If you had, you'd know how useful the knockback on Windforce actually is. Likewise, you'd realize that Needler isn't bad because it has something the swiftness bows don't, it fires faster thus allowing you a better chance of locking up another player. Using a bow of swiftness, someone can escape before the next arrow hits, with needler, someone that's sufficiently fast with their clicking, it's impossible to escape because the arrows are hitting too quick.

Trust me, you two really don't know as much as you think you know about Rogues and it's showing.

Edit: And nice try FIT making another account to try to bolster yourself. Really, that just shows how silly you really are.

Actually, Uncovered is a good friend of mine who I game with frequently on the Europe server, and if you visit the tristram site in my sig, you will see we are indeed two different people. I showed him and a few people this thread, and they all said the same thing: that you have absolutely no clue as to what you are talking about. I don't need to make two accounts to "bolster" myself, you do that on your own whenever you make posts like the one you just did, honey bunny. I know it hurts you deep down inside that there are people who agree with me, cause I know what I'm talking about, and you don't. To that I say: Cry me a river, build a bridge, and get over it!

So now The Needler is a better bow in PvP than Massive Bow of Swiftness....as you would say....

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Newsflash: Needler and bows of Swiftness have the same attack speed, this is a fact which can be verified in Jarulf's, as well as a physical in-game test. A plain bow of Swiftness is better than the Needler, let alone a Massive Bow of Swiftness. It is you, not me or Uncovered, that has no clue about rogues, for any seasoned rogue player would know this information regarding attack speed on bows - and you clearly do not.

The only part of your post that may have even a grain of truth to it is Windforce being able to knock back Diablo without awakening the demons in his cage. But this is completely meaningless anyway, since there are still a TON of better bows a Rogue can use as a multi-purpose bow for general gaming and not just one circumstance, namely Emerald Heavens, Savage Heavens, or MBOS. Even an Eaglehorn is a better bow. For a low-level rogue, WF is actually quite a good bow. For a high level Rogue, NO. The knock back becomes more of a burden than an asset on the higher difficulties (especially vs succibus) when it takes longer to kill monsters, and when your char damage actually means more than weapon damage - thus it is better to get other benefits on a bow such as resists/attributes or attack speed instead of just raw dmg. Not to mention once u have a nice plate and max dex, you have high amount of AC where u will get hit less compared to a low level rogue - who may need the knock back for crowd control and the raw dmg since her char dmg is still quite low. You "trying" to educate me about D1 PvP is a complete joke, you have absolutely no clue as to who you are conversing with apparently.

Anyway, if you think you know so much and we know so little, how about you come on bnet and we will see who really knows more on Dlvl 1? Enough talk. Lets put this into action and see who is really more knowledgeable. It is highly doubtful that you are even worthy of stepping in the same arena as me, though. Guess I could go easy on you and use my clvl 25 Rogue. Channel "Diablo Deu-1" - Europe server, if you muster up the courage. As said before, you may want to visit my youtube page first and take a few notes

Oh, and hi Jess No worries man, I got this....she does more to damage her own credibility than we do, to be honest. The funny thing is, you were drunk as hell last night and your post STILL containes more truth in it than hers, rofl. I think this will be my last post regarding this issue, there is no arguing with trolls who suffer from "Invincible Ignorance" - they are too far gone. Guess in such circumstances just have to let them live in their little dream world I suppose, oh well.

[RTM]

Worst Diablo 3 thread ever

[FireIceTalon]

Yes, and I will apologize on Lissa's behalf for derailing it with utter non-sense, as well as my own behalf for being foolish enough to engage her trollery. Let's get it back on topic now, and keep it movin', shall we?

[NuurAbSaal]

Worst Diablo 3 thread ever

[Lissa]

Yes, and I will apologize on Lissa's behalf for derailing it with utter non-sense, as well as my own behalf for being foolish enough to engage her trollery. Let's get it back on topic now, and keep it movin', shall we?

I'll stop, but I didn't put out the commentary that DH is OP and prior Bow classes were UP, you did. You think you've mastered the Rogue, but your knowledge about Windforce and why it's useful along with not knowing why Needler is better than of Swiftness shows you haven't mastered the Rogue as you think. Simply, no one ever masters a class until they can hit 50 using a BN(x) playing under the hard core rule set outlined by the various variant players because that is true skill and shows true mastery. You haven't done that (neither have I), so you haven't mastered the Rogue.