I object: Bring Back "The Ranger"!

[Occhidiangela]

Was a nod to two things:

1. An Ohio SSBN not built
2. CT is the home of the Nuclear Submarine fleet, in Groton/New London area. :) That schoolhouse is just down the road from Mystic Seaport, home of some nice old Whalers and a tourist trap, and is home to the USS Nautilus, the first ever SSN.

As for Carter, that is the sort of stuff I was ranting about. A good man, still breathing, getting a ship named after him. That he is a worthy candidate is certainly true: in the top of his class at Annapolis, 8 years active service, one of the early selections to Rickover's Nuclear Navy, Governor of Georgia, President of the US, Nobel Peace Prize, all around good human being. He is a noteworthy American by any measurement.

John Stennis: Congressman. A "Navy supporter." Pascagoula, Mississippi, is a significant Naval yard.

Senate Years of Service: 1947-1989
Party: Democrat 
STENNIS, John Cornelius, a Senator from Mississippi; born near De Kalb, Kemper County, Miss., August 3, 1901; attended the county schools; graduated, Mississippi State College 1923; graduated, University of Virginia Law School 1928; admitted to the bar in 1928 and commenced practice in De Kalb, Miss.; member, State house of representatives 1928-1932; district prosecuting attorney 1932-1937; circuit judge 1937-1947; elected as a Democrat to the United States Senate on November 4, 1947, to fill the vacancy caused by the death of Theodore G. Bilbo and served from November 5, 1947, to January 3, 1953; reelected in 1952, 1958, 1964, 1970, 1976, and again in 1982 for the term ending January 3, 1989; not a candidate for reelection in 1988; President pro tempore of the Senate during the One-hundredth Congress; chairman, Select Committee on Standards and Conduct (Eighty-ninth through Ninety-third Congresses), Committee on Armed Services (Ninety-first through Ninety-sixth Congresses), Committee on Appropriations (One Hundredth Congress); was a resident of Starkville, Mississippi, and later, Madison, Mississippi, until his death in Jackson, April 23, 1995; interment in Pinecrest Cemetery, DeKalb, Mississippi.

Carl Vinson: From Georgia.  Fifty years in Congress.
Carl Vinson: Who's He?
During his unparalleled tenure of fifty plus years, he also completed a record breaking twenty-nine years as Chairman of the House Naval Affairs and Armed Services Committee.   In that position, Congressman Vinson forged and moved through Congress the landmark Vinson-Trammel Act which provided authority for the eventual construction of ninety-two major warships, the birth of the two ocean Navy. From Capitol Hill, he also guided the establishment of a separate air academy {US Air Force Academy} and the launching of the Navy's first nuclear powered submarine.

Vinson was the first man, in 1982, to be honored by watching a capital ship bearing his name be launched. There was much debate even then over the precedent.

IMO, Franklin is a better choice, as would be Monroe or Jefferson.

I'd vote against Jefferson, though, since he was a bit of a nautical novice. He figured that gun rafts (one or two cannons per) were enough to protect Washington from the British fleet. In 1812-1815 his tom fool ideas on that score were shown to be rubbish. Lucky for him, the Frigates were already under construction and were available for his use versus the Barbary states, among others.

[Rhydderch Hael]

There was another exception to the old submarine-naming convention, I believe: there's the USS Scorpion, who I recall only on the grace that she and one other (the USS Thresher) were the only nuclear-powered submarines of the US Navy that have ever been lost at sea.

Scorpions aren't aquatic creatures, no?

[Occhidiangela]

Yes, indeed, the Scorpion met her demise in the deep. There was a previous SS Scorpion of WW II vintage, IIRC, as well as an SS Thresher.

Reusing names is a tried and true tradition.

[Rhydderch Hael]

You want an unlucky name, try the USS Philadelphia. Ignominiously captured in Tripoli during the Barbary Wars, then burned by Decatur.

[Rhydderch Hael]

Yes, but unless the full and true name of the boat is Sea Scorpion, the boat's name is an exception to the American submarine convention of naming them after ocean critters, yes?

Then again, the first US Navy sub was the USS Holland, but that was an understandable one, being the name of the boat's inventor and all...

[Rhydderch Hael]

Politics. There's been a USS United States; a USS Congress; and a USS President. Given the triad of American government, ever wonder why there was never a USS Supreme Court? I guess it has to be that the judicial branch has nothing to do with the appropriation of the United States Navy... ;)

The USS Constellation (right now, the oldest carrier in the US Navy) was originally so-named (back in the day when she was a 36-gun frigate) for the constellation of stars upon the American flag.

[Occhidiangela]

USS SCORPION I (SS-278)

Sunk in 1944.

USS Scorpion was named for that ship.

[Occhidiangela]

Kitty Hawk.

A bit of national heritage that also needs to be preserved far more than the legacy of a person. No battle, other than the continual battle against gravity fought by all who aspire to 'slip the surly bonds of earth.'

[Occhidiangela]

On June 16, 1933
President Roosevelt announced that $238 million of the funds provided by the National Recovery Act would be allociated to increase contracts for the depressed shipbuilding industry and thereby help the US Navy to build up to the strength allowed by the 1930 London Treaty. Having reached the treaty limit for heavy cruisers with its plans to build Wichita (CA-45), the Navy chose to build large 10,000 ton cruisers with 15 6" guns.
Reasons for this descision centered on the response to the recent Japanese Mogami-class design: American officers wanted a long-ranging, rapid-firing, 6-inch gunned cruiser that could smother the slower-firing, 8-inch gunned cruisers.
The first four ships of this class Brooklyn (CL-40), Philadelphia (CL41), Savannah (CL-43) were authorized in 1933 along with the soon-to-be-famous carriers Yorktowne (CV-5) and Enterprise (CV-6). The remaining three cruisers Phoenix (CL-46), Boise (CL-47) and Honolulu (CL-48) were funded by the 1934 Vinson-Teammell Act. As a class, these seven ships would fight throughout the war and would be found in the Allantic and Pacific. Together they would earn 49 battle stars Brooklyn 4, Philadelphia 5, Savannah 3, Nashville 10, Phoenix 9, Boise 10 and Honolulu 8. Although several of these cruisers were damaged by enemy action, none was lost in World War II.

[Rhydderch Hael]

I acknowledge that Scorpion has been a name applied to American subs (never disputed it). Just stating that naming such a vessel (traditionally named after sea creatures) after a land creature creates the exception.

[Rhydderch Hael]

What of her sailors? They could go around and say "I served on Congress" and confuse folks into think they're statesmen.

[Skandranon]

Picked this up off a board frequented by naval officers.

      The strange and sinister revenge of a lowly Admiralty clerk

      I NAME THIS SHIP........ Research, even into the most mundane subject, can sometimes bring unexpected rewards.      Recently, for reasons too dull to explain, I was attempting to discover the names of battleships which served with the Royal Navy during the Second World War. The reference librarian hopefully provided me with a huge volume which listed the names of every British warship ever built, and as I leafed through the index, I was impressed by the quality of the names that the British have given their warships.

      HMS Relentless, HMS Repulse, HMS Resolution; fine names, names to gladden the heart of every true Brit and dismay any foreigners with a grasp of English. Names redolent of courage and firm-jawed determination - HMS Sceptre, HMS Scimitar, HMS Seadog, HMS Spanker -

      HMS Spanker ? it had to be a misprint, but when I looked at the relative page there it was, HMS Spanker, minesweeper. I turned back to the index and soon discovered that HMS Spanker was not the only warship to bear a silly name. A quick check unearthed the destroyers HMS Fairy and HMS Frolic, the light cruiser, HMS Sappho and the corvette, HMS Pansy.

      My first assumption was that these names had been chosen by some fresh faced innocent unaware of their connotations, but a careful reading of the index suggested that the choice of such names was deliberate and malicious. I have no proof for my theory, but I strongly suspect that they were the creations of an embittered clerk.

      He was a minor bureaucrat who had once dreamed of becoming a naval hero, a second Nelson or Benbow, but had been turned down for active service on the grounds of flat feet and myopia. The Sea Lords, kindly and foolishly, gave him an office job in the Admiralty. There, as he brooded upon the shattering of his ambitions, his envy of the jolly Jack Tars serving in His Majesty's ships turned to hatred and then into a desire to humiliate those who lived a life on the ocean wave. His big break came when he got a job in the Ship's Names Department and he set to work with a will.

      Having started with HMS Pansy, HMS Fairy and HMS Spanker, he moved into sexually suggestive names - HMS Teaser,  HMS Tickler, HMS Torrid, HMS Thruster and HMS Thrasher. Not content with the damage to morale that these names must have caused to morale that these names must have caused he followed up with HMS Inconstant, HMS Insolent, HMS Truant, HMS Dwarf and HMS Doris.

      The man must have been twisted, but he was no mean amateur psychologist. Would an hard pressed admiral be cheered by the news that HMS Doris and HMS Dwarf (a cruiser and gunboat combination that sounds like an avant-garde cabaret act) were steaming to his aid ? Could he be certain that HMS Truant would turn up ? That HMS Inconstant wouldn't change sides, or that HMS Insolent wouldn't reply to his signals with a stream of abuse ?

      This evil minded functionary worked hard to destroy fighting spirit, carefully calculating the result of call a ship HMS Hazard. The cry, "Hazard to port !" must have disrupted countless naval exercises and I strongly suspect that he tried to name a destroyer HMS Mutiny, thinking of the chaos that would result from the signal "Mutiny in Portsmouth". Someone spotted this and changed his proposed name from the English Mutiny to the French Mutinè, hoping that the ship would stir up trouble on courtesy visits to French ports.

      If my theory is correct, that someone was Clerk No.2 he worked in the same office as Clerk No.1, but his history and beliefs were very different. He had been invalided out of the Navy after a distinguished career and was a ferocious xenophobe who believed that the British had the right to intimidate and bully anyone who stood in their way. his existence is demonstrated by further study of the list of names.

      Most people would consider names like HMS Conqueror, HMS Terror and HMS Vengeance adequate for the purpose of frightening Britain's enemies. Not Clerk No.2 he though them namby-pamby and decided to rectify the situation. Hewasn't as prolific as Clerk No.1, but he did his best christening such vessels as HMS Arrogant, HMS Imperialist, HMS Savage, HMS Spiteful, HMS Surly and HMS Tyrant. His finest hour came when he got the job of thinking up names beginning with V, he came up with HMS Vandal, HMS Venomous, HMS Vindictive and HMS Violent. He too was a good psychologist - nobody      who had dared to challenge Britain could fail to be moved by the news that HMS Spiteful, HMS Violent and HMS Vindictive were turning up to sort them out.

      In later years, as he sat writing letters to the Eastbourne Gazette demanding the introduction of public flogging for litter louts, he must have regretted not calling a ship HMS Vicious. However, he probably consoled himself with the thought that Clerk No.1 didn't get much of a look in on the V's. He would have christened the ships Vacuous, Vile, Verminous and Venereal.  As it was he only managed HMS Vanity, which was presumably a sister ship of HMS Narcissus. Though Clerk No.2 no doubt deplored the behaviour of his colleague, he, too, allowed the problems of day-to-day existence to intrude into his work, though only after rows with his wife, hence HMS Termagant, HMS Virago and HMS Tirade.

      I don't know for how many years they worked in the same office, but it must have been a fraught relationship. Each probably spent most of his time trying to trump the names of the other. Clerk No.1 christened HMS Pansy, No.2 responded  with HMS  Manly. No.1 - HMS Fairy, No.2 - HMS Virile. And so it went on until they retired and the ships they had named were either sunk or scrapped.

      Now our ships have boringly correct names, which is a pity, for names could make a difference. A truly chauvinistic government would do well to study the names dreamed up by Clerk No.2. If we can no longer terrify opponents with the size of our navy, we could try to frighten them with aggressive nomenclature. A good start would be to retrieve the name HMS Violentand call sister ships HMS Psychopathic, HMS Blood Crazed and HMS Criminally Insane. The Vandal class could include HMS Ram Raider, HMS Headcase and HMS Terminator.

      Of course, a more progressive government might go for names which reflected the concerns of the Left - HMS Black Sections, HMS Stop Clause 28, HMS Unilateralist and HMS Binding Decision of the Party Conference. Perhaps not, the Daily Mail would have a field day if HMS Unilateralist was ever sunk.

      In any event, the name of the ship doesn't appear to have affected its ability to fight, HMS Truant sank the Karlsruhe, HMS Wallflower and HMS Inconstant accounted for several U-boats and I've do doubt that other ships with ridiculous names had excellent war records.

      But it is hard not to imagine the crew of HMS Narcissus leaning over the side to admire their reflections in the water, or the crew of HMS Spanker being accosted by leather-clad masochists in dockside bars.

      The crews of such ships must have been relieved when security considerations temporarily ended the practice of having the ship's name emblazoned on the cap-band. Even so, the change didn't come quickly enough for the unfortunate University Naval Reserve Unit which, when the orders for mobilisation came, was sent en masse to join a battleship. As they walked up the gangway the regulars on deck burst into hysterical laughter. The full name of the unit was the Cambridge University Naval Training Squadron, which was, of course indicated by the initials on their caps..........

      Then again, it might be apocryphal.

      Taken from a magazine article by James Richards

      CJ

[channel1]

Why name SSN-23 "Jimmy Carter"?

Because somebody had a bit of wit. At least this was a naming that had some relevance, Carter having served on submarines and worked in the program to create nuclear powered submarines.
Naval service of Jimmy Carter

By the way, I think that naming any of these with contemporary names of politicians, or politically significant individuals (such as MacArthur) is a bad idea. The winds of political change are too variable, and can result in those names becoming undesirable long before their service is finished.

-rcv-

[Occhidiangela]

There was a move afoot in the Department of Education to disband the Brigade of Midshipman and then privatize, civilianize, and rename the U.S. Naval Academy (USNA) to the Chesapeake University of Naval Technology. The school being on the Chesapeake Bay, the new name held a nice, non-chauvinistic, non-bellicose connotation and captured the new and expensive engineering facilities at Rickover Hall, with its state of the art wave tank, for the greater purposes of higher education.

Luckily, someone in the Department of Interior caught wind of that initiative and put forward a more suitable name and technical research basis for civilianization, proposing that the Severn Higher Institute of Technology be the new institution, both to dispense with the maritime bias and to better declare the geographical uniqueness of the location on the banks of the Severn River.

Rumor has it that Admiral Rickover, when told of the idea, was pleased with the idea of an even tighter focus on technology and engineering, but was clever enough to see what was afoot (he was an alumnus) and moved swiftly via his connections on Capitol Hill to squash that idea, to nip it in the bud, to pull the plug on it, to, shall we say, torpedo it. Being a submariner, what else would you expect him to do?

Thanks for the HMS name convention story, it raised a chuckle, I particularly like HMS Sappho. Brilliant that it got through the MoD intact, don't you think?

[Bun-Bun]

:lol: :lol: :lol:

By the way, I recall that a spanker is a type of sail. I don't know about HMS Doris, though.

[Occhidiangela]

"Qualifying" as submarine officer takes well over a year anymore, sometimes two or three, not the lightning two months the young LT Carter accomplished.

[Occhidiangela]

missed a trick on reading through the links about Scorpion. Point understood.

I'd say it presents "an exception" versus "the exception" or precedent, and I imagine that a variety of precedents could be cited on how and when ship names change.

[Occhidiangela]

Adn then there are spankers! Depending on what region you are from, having spanker emblazoned on your cap would be very similar to having Wanker on your hat, in that Monkey Spanking is the uncouth reference to the spanking action.

Speaking of sails, can anyone name for me what the Iron Jenny is, and what it refers to? :D
(yes, I know the answer)

[Rhydderch Hael]

...I'd say it presents "an exception" versus "the exception" or precedent, ...

Yes, I know. <_< That was my sentiment as expressed in all the previous posts on this matter. "An exception", not "the exception". But I had thought it had enough *oomph* behind it to get people to finally read the words I wrote.

I guess not. :unsure:

[WarBlade]

That one is a clouded bit of history, to be sure. I did a little bit of research on that period in aviation history last year and came to the conclusion that there are at least a dozen aviators with a tenuous claim to being the first to achieve powered flight. Change the criteria of what constitutes "powered flight" just a little and someone else steps up to take the throne.

Many New Zealanders would have others believe Richard Pearse beat the Wright Brothers by six months, despite Pearse's own claims that the Wight Brothers beat him to it, but there's plenty of other evidence out there to say others had managed the feat as early as 1901 (An ex-pat Austrian in New York state IIRC). A classic example of where the critera goes haywire would be the Danish aviator (who's name escapes me) who had no room to build a straight runway and instead opted to build a circular one. Tethering his aircraft to a central anchoring point he was able to achieve lift, but even with the wheels off the ground his machine was still technically touching the ground (via the tether). :lol:

The Wright Brothers did manage to achieve something that can't be denied though. They became the first to gain official recognition for the feat of achieving powered flight. The world had largely ignored them until 1908 when they finally won recognition in France. Look up "Smithsonian Conspiracy" for some interesting reading.

1903. Powered Flight
2003. 100 year anniversary of powered flight this year.