Well, it frakkin ended.

[Hammerskjold]

Spoilers alert warning.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

Not really buying this also. Maybe after having been on ships for four years and eating algae-derived "food products" the thought of real food caused everyone to conveniently forget about the hard labor that would be involved in obtaining this "real food". Not to mention the high chance of messy death by wild animal.

I've been thinking about this part for a while, and I'm still 49\51 split on it. The 150,000 year jump hangs on the whole 'let's not build cities right away' bit. Though iirc, most of the fleet did not re-locate one by one, it looked like they settled as a group. Spread out through out the planet yes, but not one person per miles and miles. The ones who went totally hermit are afaik, definitely Tyrol. Probably Adama Sr. Maybe Lee Adama. Mr and Mrs. Tigh not 100% clear.

The points I can think of for abandoning most of their high tech and not keeping ships in orbit:

- Most of their high tech seems to be on their last legs anyway. Earth2 offers what appears to be a verdant savannah filled with tasty game animals. (Honestly the only thing missing is a magic marshmallow tree.)
But it doesn't seem to have a spacedock. It's not clear if they have tilium deposits nearby either. Even if they do, it's not clear if people in the fleet want to continue the upkeep.

Getting kicked by a gazelle or eaten by a lion is a real possibility, but some folks might take it over dying in a soot filled tilium refinery ship. Lee's idea does have some pragmatic aspect. Before the final mission, other ships are already shouting 'I got dibs' on various parts of Galactica. Their high tech will break, Lee's suggestion probably means they at least do it in their own terms.

- It might be too much of a temptation and danger. 'Why are we doing hard labour like suckers, when there's a ready supply of non-verbal natives right here? We got guns, we got ships in orbit, and they have wooden spears. Hmmm. So what should we call our new servants?....How 'bout...Si-Lons! Splendid! Now that's putting the Colonialism back into Colonials! High five!' The people that survived the final assault\rescue mission might have understood what it would take to break the cycle, but some might not. (IMO the 'big message' I got was about respect and recognition of other forms of sentience. Not that tech=bad, don't build robots.)

Which brings it to the points on not buying the 'let's live simpler lives for awhile without high tech'.

- Baltar's cult. Did they give up their guns? They received an upgrade from just a bunch of pistols after the mutiny IIRC. Did Baltar manage to do one last Jesus moment and convince them to put away their sword now that the promised land is reached? For the sake of story expediency, we might be able to gloss that over.

Believability wise, I dunno. How about the Sons of Ares, are they as amenable to the new arrangement? Maybe the remaining Colonial Marines can settle that. Let's say it didn't turn into a Waco style showdown on Earth2, and the promise of Earth2 new beginning is enough to peacefully settle things.
The only reason I can buy that under is that Ron Moore originally wanted 5 seasons, but got 4 instead and had to make do under the circumstances.

- Did Lee fully understood the real risk of switching the Colonials into a hunter-gatherer\agrarian society, from a previously high tech one? Granted, they did not abandon all tech, mostly just high tech ones. And not everyone from the 12 colonies are clueless about hunting\gathering\farming. Some like Baltar, knows something about farming. Someone like Tyrol can probably hack it outdoors for a while. But what about say, that kid who just spent a summer on a bread basket colony, just as a summer job?

What happens when some folks are not as happy with Earth2, and starts saying dammit I miss Caprican ice cream. Where's my ice cream?! Some paradise this is...it's more like Hell! Why did we jettison the ships into the sun again?! Ungrateful and short-sighted yes, but all too human. Maybe this is why Lee chose to be alone for awhile, to hedge his bet when the complainin' starts.

This still doesn't change my overall appreciation of the series. Even the niggling factors and a few badly left loose ends means the storytellers still managed to make me care.

And! Red striped Cylons SO CUTE. :w00t:

Can't wait for the action figure. The Red Stripes Centurions = 51 flavours of awesome.

[Kevin]

Yeah I still think a spoiler block is warranted....

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

Note I'm quoting just Hammerskjold but I'm referencing several other people. The quotes are just what fired off my thought lines, my response should not be assumed to be directed at Hammer.

I've been thinking about this part for a while, and I'm still 49\51 split on it. The 150,000 year jump hangs on the whole 'let's not build cities right away' bit.

The point that no one seems to bring up is New Caprica. Given the weather there was not so hot, but the city they had? It wasn't so great either, even before the Cylon occupation.

As others have mentioned, much of the tech they had was already broken. Things could have been salvaged, but it would have been a stop gap. 25K people (I think that was about all that was left likely even less, I know we were under 29K and hundreds more had died) can't build a huge infrastructure quickly. New Caprica was mostly a tent city and landed ships anyway and they were there for well over a year before the Cylons found them.

New Caprica also was a suck hole and they mentioned several times that people still didn't go back to the ships that much, even Tigh stayed on the craphole planet because it was better than the ships. They were already starting to forget about the ships and abandon some of the tech on New Caprica. Don't forget that all the survivors had already had a lesson in starting over on a planet.

If you take the tech with you, you have even less incentive to push forward. Any city that was built was doomed to decline for many years anyway, they had seen some of this. They had seen how easy a central population was to enslave by the Cylons and they had 2 Battlestars to defend them at that point. But they were undermanned, and not ready for the fight. Now they would have had a broken Battlestar and if they wanted to keep the base ship a bunch of Centurions they really weren't sure about, hanging around as well.

The rest of the fleet couldn't defend against an attack anyway. It's also very possible that even a powered down in orbit ship would be much easier for long range scanners to pick up than other signs of life on the planet. So instead of leaving that "hey come and get me!" sign up they got rid of it.

They also had no idea where they were. So even if they wanted to check out other planets and you have to ask why they would since Earth was obviously the best planet they had ever seen, even better than their home worlds as was hinted at by the "there is more life here than on the 13 colonies combined" comment, all the nav data would need to be recalculated.

Jumping to some other system, alone and unprotected when you know there were still other base ships out there, sure they didn't have resurrection and might be as willing to fight, but where is the fight that Colonial One could put up? Even with weapons from Galactica, which after the assault on the colony, had even less to offer in terms of weapons as they made it point to show several of the gun batteries being blown up, and you have to assume a lot of the remaining ammo was gone too.

People knew they were stuck on earth for the rest of the lives anyway if they wanted any kind of safety.

- Baltar's cult. Did they give up their guns? They received an upgrade from just a bunch of pistols after the mutiny IIRC. ....

...How about the Sons of Ares, are they as amenable to the new arrangement? Maybe the remaining Colonial Marines can settle that.

These are good questions, but even if they didn't give up the guns, how long would they really be an advantage? The marines could have force relocated them too go where they wanted them to go. You stick them in the middle of North America, along the Mississippi and don't give them a ship and you've cut them off from Europe, Asia and Africa. It would take them months to get to South America. Put them in Australia or a Pacific island and they are effectively cut off from everyone. So they can keep their guns and the marines can relocate them and they are not an issue anymore anyway.

Besides, making gunpowder and ammunition takes resources and a base infrastructure that simply weren't there. The higher tech the weapon the more precise the ammunition has to be. You get a charge wrong in an automatic and it jams up, and is a pain in the arse to use. Even stripping the ships doesn't mean you are going to have a lot of resource for that. As you mentioned, the ships were tillium powered, I'm assuming most of the rest of the tech assumed a tillium power source of some kind as well. We know that earth doesn't have any (since they tied it back to us and since we've never found tillium), since it can be scanned for so did the settlers. The old tech was going to run out of fuel or need conversion anyway. Did they even know about coal/oil/other fossil fuels and how to harness the power from them?

Remember we are dealing with mostly average joe's that just happened to be in space when the planets were wiped out. Roslin was, what, 46th in line for the presidency and there was no one else even close to her civilian rank with government experience.

Expansion would have happened regardless of splitting up or staying centralized. People would have left the city because history shows that humanity explores, and the colonials were not that different. Centralization also means that you are more likely to be wiped out by the Cylons if they come back since you have no defenses anyway. Even putting the guns and the ships on the rest of the fleet, as has been mentioned wouldn't have mattered.

- Did Lee fully understood the real risk of switching the Colonials into a hunter-gatherer\agrarian society, from a previously high tech one?

Did he have a choice? Again, you take 25K random people from Earth, and drop them somewhere in North America, 150,000 years ago with say a battleship, an aircraft carrier, a few jet planes, a couple of cargo ships, some cars and trucks and helicopters and come back in 10 years and see if any of that stuff is running. Even with several nuclear reactors at their disposal from the ships that could give instant power sources you are going to regress and lots of people are just going to go off as settlers anyway.

The whole swap from civilized to agrarian isn't as hard as it seems. People who had lived only in cities and never farmed in their lives came from Europe and went to the wild untamed parts of America. Sure they had access to the manufactured goods of Europe and the east but they adapted.

But none of the tech could really have been saved, it would have been salvaged and rare and precious. In 200 years when the population was potentially around a million (depends on how much interbreeding with the locals had happened) all the tech would have been pretty much gone anyway as there would have been no way to support it. You would have to assume that the tillium was all gone they would have no way to get to the fleet in orbit anyway, I can't see them having gas powered raptors for transport. Transportation would have been back at the horse and buggy anyway as the kids that were born on Earth even if you took them to the ships and taught them wouldn't be living in that world, they would be farming and hunting because that is what needed to be done to survive. The algae food processing couldn't sustain the larger population. Remember they mentioned that on New Caprica too, they had to start farming if the population increases were going to continue.

What happens when some folks are not as happy with Earth2, and starts saying dammit I miss Caprican ice cream. Where's my ice cream?! Some paradise this is...it's more like Hell! Why did we jettison the ships into the sun again?! Ungrateful and short-sighted yes, but all too human. Maybe this is why Lee chose to be alone for awhile, to hedge his bet when the complainin' starts.

I'm sure that happened anyway. But there wasn't any ice cream as it was. Again don't forget New Caprica. That planet sucked and they were still happier there. They had the fleet, they didn't use it and I don't think that was unreasonable. These people wanted a home. They wanted a home badly. As mentioned Earth was a better planet than any of them had ever seen.


Now there are still holes in my argument, but there weren't too many other options. The fleet had been looking for a planet to live on for 4 years as it was and had found one craptastic place. But again the desire for an actual home and a chance to get away from the Cylons, could have also been used to railroad the agenda through. You don't give the people time to organize and you just do it and you could get a lot more to agree to it and when it's done you can't go back. I agree I don't see everyone buying it. I personally would have argued to keep some of the better quality ships (assuming they weren't a beacon of hey Cylons that still hate us we are over here) around and salvaged more of the tech but at that stage I could also see me being overruled as well.

I still agree that it's a weak point and it deserved more time and explanation, and could have played out differently, but I don't think the end results would have changed too much if you played it different, and if you played it different the whole impact of the cycle isn't as good.

[Hammerskjold]

Spoilers spoilers warning alert.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

.

...my response should not be assumed to be directed at Hammer.

Too late, I gotta reply when you put up a bunch of good points.:)

Though re-reading one of my sentence, I might have been a bit unclear and confusing. I can't get no relief until I correct it. (wakka wakka nyuk nyuk nyuk)

Instead of this, 'The 150,000 year jump hangs on the whole 'let's not build cities right away' bit.'

I probably should've wrote it as, 'the -success\story impact- of the 150,000 year jump relies on the let's not build cities bit...etc'. And so far, IMO I still think the coda\ jump scene was a successful story move.

K, let's get to the meatier bits and less on my grammar mistakes.

New Caprica also was a suck hole and they mentioned several times that people still didn't go back to the ships that much, even Tigh stayed on the craphole planet because it was better than the ships.

Yep. In the New Caprica episodes, Adama probably saw the writing on the wall. More and more people want to go down to the planet, Galactica and Pegasus has an increasingly hard time retaining a ship crew. It's enough to make Lee all fat and soft, and Adama grow a pornstache.

They were already starting to forget about the ships and abandon some of the tech on New Caprica. Don't forget that all the survivors had already had a lesson in starting over on a planet.

Good point, though iirc they may have some light machinery on the landed ships I think. But the general suckiness of New Caprica's habitability, would probably necessitate more technology to eke out even basic existence. On Earth2 they did seem to have at least tents\tent style dwellings at first, but they probably could make do with less tech compared to New Caprica.

Now they would have had a broken Battlestar and if they wanted to keep the base ship a bunch of Centurions they really weren't sure about, hanging around as well.

Yeah. Giving the Red Stripes the Base Ship along with their freedom was IMO, more than just the right thing to do. It was probably also the safe thing to do. I think the Red Stripes would've been pissed off severely if after what they went through, to be enslaved yet again by the organics, colonials and skinjobs.

Letting them go has risks, but not letting them go is probably an even bigger danger. A broken Galactica staffed by just the people who survived the final mission, probably isn't in any position to dictate terms to the Red Stripes anyway. Also, breaking that cycle bit.

but even if they didn't give up the guns, how long would they really be an advantage? The marines could have force relocated them too go where they wanted them to go.

True, forgot about that possibility.

The old tech was going to run out of fuel or need conversion anyway. Did they even know about coal

OMGOMGOMGOMG! Are you thinking what I'm thinking?

BATTLE STEAM:GALACTICA!

Again, you take 25K random people from Earth, and drop them somewhere in North America, 150,000 years ago with say a battleship, an aircraft carrier, a few jet planes, a couple of cargo ships, some cars and trucks and helicopters and come back in 10 years and see if any of that stuff is running.

Sir, I only have one thing to say about this and one thing only. Why am I just reading this on a forum, instead of watching it on my TV screen as the most kick ass reality show, ever. They probably can't do the backwards time travel, but we'll find a sparsely populated area to fill in. Hell, with today's real estate prices, there's probably deals to be had in N. America.

I'm sure that happened anyway. But there wasn't any ice cream as it was. Again don't forget New Caprica.

Well, the one ship I can think of that might have the ability to produce ice cream, was the Cloud-9. And that went kablouie iirc at the time of the presidential vote aka \stay or pass on New Caprica. Frankly, I still blame Baltar for that one.

But again the desire for an actual home and a chance to get away from the Cylons, could have also been used to railroad the agenda through. You don't give the people time to organize and you just do it and you could get a lot more to agree to it and when it's done you can't go back.

Good observation. If it can work in our world, it's probably not a big barrier in theirs.

[Taem]

Alright, I now feel that there has been enough good, solid points made in this thread for the Earth2 story arc to give me peace of mind over the thought of the remaining humans giving up their ships to live on the planet forever. I'll buy it, but I hope Roger Moore signs a book deal to have the story published in book format so I can read how the finale should of ended instead of the many loose threads tied up haphazardly. Someone said Roger wanted 5-seasons? Wow, if a book series comes out, I'm sure a lot of new revelations will be exposed. For the final episode, again, I was not disappointed, and after reading all of this, now feel fulfilled.

[Jester]

I believe you mean Ronald Moore. Roger Moore is James Bond.

-Jester

[Greyce]

Spoiler tag, yadda yadda yadda. I know I'm a bit late to the thread, but I think I can clear up a few things for you MEAT.

He also states that the Cylons#1 created the Cylons#2, but does not state why.

So Humans find Caprica and create AI in the form of Centurions? Or did the Cylons give them Centerions? How did the humans on Caprica forget about the skin-jobs when they coexisted with them in Kobol? Maybe because 4000 years had passed I presume.

Ellen Tigh provides plot exposition explaining this bit, although I'm afraid I don't know which episode. As you've previously mentioned, the Final Five went to the Colonies to try to prevent the inevitable war between the Colonials and the centurions they would invent; however, they arrived after the war had already begun. In order to achieve peace, the Final Five agreed to help the centurions develop "skinjob" models in return for armistice and self-imposed Cylon exile. (For some reason the Centurions were interested in making organic models - Bill Adama's Razor webisodes show some of their early efforts.)

Whether Resurrection technology was part of the deal with the Centurions, or if it was simply the only way to keep the new skinjob models from dying off (as they couldn't reproduce biologically), is unclear to me; but that's tangential to the bigger picture.

So my main gripe is with how the survivors all decided to give up their technology to live on Earth#2. I just don't buy that.

I agree, I've got some mixed feelings about it myself. A few things struck me after reading over this thread's discussion on the abandonment of technology and Earth2 resettlement:

1) It seems that the colonials purposefully renounced their technology. Someone upthread mentioned hearing Adama talk about making "provisions" for technology distribution amongst the settlers; his quote is something like "we will drop settler groups with provisions here, here...(pointing to the map)" so to me it's pretty clear he's talking about provisions meaning food. Speaking practically, the best way to ensure survival of technology information would have been under the centralized urban scheme that had already been rejected.

Lee Adama's speech about how their "minds had outgrown their hearts" also indicates that everyone understands that they will profoundly regress technologically. That being said, it looks like more than a few weapons and tools made it planetside (I saw more than one sidearm or optical device; Bill Adama kept a whole Raptor!) but after a couple generations the knowledge to manufacture or maintain such things would be lost anyway.

2) The Cavil-faction Cylons still possess a formidable fleet. Before the assault on the Cylon Colony, it is mentioned that the scout Raptor saw several base ships jump in-system (this is how the Galactica crew knew where it was safe to jump in). As these ships weren't there for the battle, they have to be in service somewhere; this makes settling on Earth2 a bit risky in the short-term, and getting rid of the fleet gets rid of a big "Colonial Parking" sign. Long-term, the Cylons can't reproduce and will die off (in theory at least; although we don't know what a "normal" Cylon lifespan is).

3) Making Hera the ancestor of humanity has some pretty bleak implications for the rest of the characters. This makes it very unlikely that any of the other scattered groups of Colonials survived or had offspring which survived. And unless Hera went around popping out kids with a bunch of different mates, it seems very likely that almost none of the descendants of the Colonials survived aside from her. Quite frankly, the idea that Lee Adama died childless, or that his descendants were eventually killed off, is pretty depressing.

Personally, before it was revealed that Tyrol's son wasn't really Tyrol's son, I had been assuming the series would end with him and Hera getting together to father humanity, making everyone today a half-Cylon. I'm pretty sure that was what the writers intended after the New Caprica story arc, but for some reason they decided to hang a lampshade over Tyrol's son. In fact, we don't even know what happened to him - Tyrol implies that he's not taking anyone with him to his hermitage, and the last we see of Hot Dog is flying a fighter in the final showdown. In fact, pretty much all the fighter pilots in the last battle were probably killed in Galactica's sudden jump out.

[--Pete]

Hi,

Roger Moore is James Bond.

No. Sean Connery *is* James Bond, Roger Moore just plays him in films :D

OTOH, Roger Moore is ffolkes. Best. Moore. role. ever.

--Pete

[Taem]

It also dawned on my just the other day that the whole Baltor/Jesus arc was never fleshed out and I believe it's because his character was suppose to be more like Abraham from the bible (you know that song, don't you? "Father Abraham had many sons, many sons had father Abraham..."). But alas, not enough time to complete this story arc. I agree with you about the whole Tyrol's son and Hera bit, but oh well.

And you are mostly correct about the Cylon thing, but I found this and never posted it. Anyways, the story is still muddled in regards to if the Humans kept Centurions on Kobol, and how the centurions and Cylons (final-5) found Caprica. If the humans kept centurions on Kobol, then I could see how the Cylons eventually revolted like the ones on Earth#1 did, however to find each-other seems infinitesimal when the only reason the Cylon#2's found Caprica#2 was because of a nuclear explosion in an area they had already been monitoring. And considering the Cylons#1 did not have jump capability, how in the world did they find Caprica at all?

[Taem]

Do you know what else just dawned on me this morning? The rather ambiguous music that brought the Final Five together ended up being Jimi Hendrix's The Watchtower, if you recall the final five mumbling the words of the song, Sol in particular with his hear up against his cabin saying, "There must be some kind of way out of here." Which begs the question, if it was in their robotic/genetic makeup to come together at a specific time and place, how would they know that song if Earth#2 was not yet known? Unless perhaps the show is trying to draw parallels between Earth#1's destiny and Earth#2's; i.e. same music, same ambitions, same humans, same robots with the tried cliche of this series: "This has all happened before and will happen again," or my favorite from a contemporary love ballot: "History repeats itself, I didn't mind, I didn't listen." It also dawned on me that perhaps it was the "higher powers" which brought the final-five together, which shows their love for rock; the Gods of Rock-n-Roll. Silly, I know, so an easily dismissed notion. Finally, we have a syntax error, more commonly referred to as a Plot Hole. Was Earth#1 actually suppose to be Earth until the writers decided it didn't quite fit the story they were trying to tell? Take your pick, but I'll keep my own opinion on this to myself.

[Hammerskjold]

Spoilers alert.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

Do you know what else just dawned on me this morning? The rather ambiguous music that brought the Final Five together ended up being Jimi Hendrix's The Watchtower,

Hendrix's version was the one we hear last for Earth2, but the one that brought the final5 was not Dylan's original, or Hendrix's iirc. It was supposed to be the Earth1's version, but if we're gonna get nitpicky about it, it's probably safer to say it was BSG's own take on it. Or really, the awesome BSG composer, Bear McReary's version.

Aw hell, the man himself can blog it way better than I can even try to summarize.
http://www.bearmccreary.com/blog/?p=164

And his blog entry for the 'Someone to watch over me' episode is worth the read IMO.

Unless perhaps the show is trying to draw parallels between Earth#1's destiny and Earth#2's; i.e. same music, same ambitions, same humans, same robots

Snippet from the blog:

I happened to catch Ron Moore in the hallway at Universal and, in a brief conversation, got everything I needed to know. I learned that the idea was not that Bob Dylan necessarily exists in the characters’ universe, but that an artist on one of the colonies may have recorded a song with the exact same melody and lyrics. Perhaps this unknown performer and Dylan pulled inspiration from a common, ethereal source. Therefore, I was told to make no musical references to any “Earthly” versions, Hendrix, Dylan or any others. The arrangement needed to sound like a pop song that belonged in the Galactica universe, not our own.

But yeah, good thing you brought up the point of music. Bear McReary's work on the series, absolutely stunning IMO. If the great Visual FX crew responsible for the gorgeous mah lazers go pew pew pew action scenes makes it worthwhile watching the series on a high def large screen. McReary's work makes it worthwhile to listen to the episodes on surround sound, or at least a very good set of headphones.

Was Earth#1 actually suppose to be Earth until the writers decided it didn't quite fit the story they were trying to tell? Take your pick, but I'll keep my own opinion on this to myself.

If we're taking real life disruptions\bad timing into account, the writer strike had something to do with it IIRC. For me, I kinda like the ambiguity raised by Head-Baltar when he refered to Earth1 as the 'real earth'.

[Hammerskjold]

spoilerz etc and such.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

1) It seems that the colonials purposefully renounced their technology. Someone upthread mentioned hearing Adama talk about making "provisions" for technology distribution amongst the settlers; his quote is something like "we will drop settler groups with provisions here, here...(pointing to the map)" so to me it's pretty clear he's talking about provisions meaning food. Speaking practically, the best way to ensure survival of technology information would have been under the centralized urban scheme that had already been rejected.

I think he also said something about supplies being distributed equally. My own take is that may mean some basic tech, if some of the camo tents\military netting are any indication.

Speaking of Adama and Raptors, I was half expecting him to crash it to the ground after Roslin died. Or jump it to the sun.

In fact, pretty much all the fighter pilots in the last battle were probably killed in Galactica's sudden jump out.

IIRC, the surviving vipers returned to Galactica's hangar bay during the momentary ceasefire. I probably have to watch it a fourth time, or wait for the DVD version. But my guess is if they stayed grounded during the frakkup during the res plan download, they probably stand a better chance of surviving. If any did fly out again when the ceasefire started going south, they'd probably be toast along with the colony.

I'm hoping the DVD will restore the rumoured extended scene where the Colony is knocked off orbit and into the black hole.

[Taem]

Well, it seems the BSG finale made the top-10 worst TV-series endings of all time according to this report. I disagree with the Seignfield one, it was more or less just like a typical episode - nothing over the top - so I liked it. I also disagreed with Roseanne, and felt that dark ending was not only appropiate, but neccessary to explain what was going on that last season; one of the more sobering exerpiences of my life watching that episode, and I loved it!

[Jester]

Well, it seems the BSG finale made the top-10 worst TV-series endings of all time according to this report. I disagree with the Seignfield one, it was more or less just like a typical episode - nothing over the top - so I liked it. I also disagreed with Roseanne, and felt that dark ending was not only appropiate, but neccessary to explain what was going on that last season; one of the more sobering exerpiences of my life watching that episode, and I loved it!

Poor Dean Stockwell, getting knocked twice!

Seriously, this "photo essay" seems like an elaborate and pointless way for someone to say they didn't like the finale of BSG. Whoop dee. I'm pretty sensitive about people pushing religiousy junk on me, and I didn't particularly mind that aspect of it. Maybe it doesn't deserve to be in a top 10 series enders list, but it doesn't deserve to be in the bottom 10.

-Jester

[Kevin]

Poor Dean Stockwell, getting knocked twice!

Seriously, this "photo essay" seems like an elaborate and pointless way for someone to say they didn't like the finale of BSG. Whoop dee. I'm pretty sensitive about people pushing religiousy junk on me, and I didn't particularly mind that aspect of it. Maybe it doesn't deserve to be in a top 10 series enders list, but it doesn't deserve to be in the bottom 10.

-Jester

Actually you raise a point I wonder about. Has there ever been an American T.V. series finale that was generally liked? I've been hearing people gripe about ER here lately though since I didn't really watch that show I can't really follow any of the convo. But I'm just not sure I've seen any shows ending ever talked about as good.

[--Pete]

Hi,

Actually you raise a point I wonder about. Has there ever been an American T.V. series finale that was generally liked? I've been hearing people gripe about ER here lately though since I didn't really watch that show I can't really follow any of the convo. But I'm just not sure I've seen any shows ending ever talked about as good.

End of MASH? I thought it was good, and I think it got good reviews.

--Pete

[Kevin]

Hi,
End of MASH? I thought it was good, and I think it got good reviews.

--Pete

Yes, that one I do recall being well liked. OK so there has been at least one. :)

[Jester]

Actually you raise a point I wonder about. Has there ever been an American T.V. series finale that was generally liked? I've been hearing people gripe about ER here lately though since I didn't really watch that show I can't really follow any of the convo. But I'm just not sure I've seen any shows ending ever talked about as good.

The finale to Star Trek: The Next Generation was pretty darn good.

-Jester

[Kevin]

The finale to Star Trek: The Next Generation was pretty darn good.

-Jester

I don't remember that one at all, but then my ST:TNG watching was rather random. I've probably seen every episode in rerun but not really in the right order.

[Hammerskjold]

Actually you raise a point I wonder about. Has there ever been an American T.V. series finale that was generally liked? I've been hearing people gripe about ER here lately though since I didn't really watch that show I can't really follow any of the convo. But I'm just not sure I've seen any shows ending ever talked about as good.

To me, it can depend on the era, and the hype and expectations of the era. I think ever since Seinfeld, the hype and people's expectations has noticeably grown to a ridicilous size sometimes. Add a cup full of innernets, stir, and voila. The modern fandom. And some folks just gets dissapointed if they're NOT dissapointed.

And yeah, the worst series finales, as compiled by FOX News? FOX News, the bastion and arbiter of what makes a show and it's finale worthwhile. :rolleyes: