Twinking, HC, SC...my thoughts

[gekko]

How has a single character "earned" one item more than another *just* because it happened to drop for them, and not for another character?

You're missing the point of twinking. Twinking differentiates characters who do the game through on their own from those who get help. It doesn't matter if the item could've dropped, or is worse than something else that dropped, or was found by one of your other characters -- if you pass items to a character who didn't find it him/her self, you're twinking. Period.

Is it "cheating?" Is it "immoral?" Well now, that's a bit more complicated. Personally I don't have a problem with twinking -- I admire non-twinking players quite a bit more, but to each his own.

The term twinking doesn't on it's own state cheating, although that's often the implication behind the term. It simply states that your character is receiving items he didn't found. "Earning" the item has nothing to do with it.

gekko

[Brista]

I think one has to be very careful about the word "cheating"

People throw it around a lot: "twinking is cheating, eth is cheating, aura flashing is cheating"

Now the Lounge is a place where cheats are banned

I think one should only use that particular word if you feel so strongly that you want the person banned for what they are doing

The word cheesy is very apt if you find these play methods annoying but not outright worthy of an instant ban, imo

I think it helps the people who use hacks a very great deal if we legit players throw the cheat word at each other. "Everyone cheats" is one of their favourite arguments and is a justification in the minds of many cheats

It also is brutal on the new player who has innocently moved items from one character to another to discover they're a cheat in the minds of some other people

I don't think people here have the same mental category for people who twink and people who drophack. So let's expand our vocabulary to use the proper words for what we want to describe B)

[the Langolier]

>"Earning" the item has nothing to do with it.

I take it you didn't notice that I borrowed that word directly from the post I was replying to.

>Twinking differentiates characters who do the game through on their own from those who get help

That is a very subjective phrase. I wouldn't consider giving a high level sorceress an angel's amulet helping. I wouldn't consider giving a paladin a Stormshield if he was already dressed in a full set of elite gear helping because it doesn't do him any additional benefit (assume he found everything else himself for simplicity).



P.S. "It's peanut butter jelly time...

...Peanut butter jelly, peanut butter jelly, peanut butter jelly with a baseball bat!"

[kandrathe]

Yes, I think as you do. Twinking is cheesy, and hardly worthy of respect, but not on the level of cheating unless you have joined a group of players who have a stricter code.

There are any number of things that people do (and heaven's, maybe me too), that are cheesy. I use a Buriza on my zon who exploits the fire arrow and pierce bugs. But I found it and I'm not playing this game with the intent of impressing anyone or trying to get any respect, fame or glory. I play to have fun. I also have a conversion, thorns paladin who wields a Kuko Shakaku, and exploits the bug that leaves the unconverted with 1 hp. I have a maxed firewall sorceress, with many fire dmg charms, who wields a demon machine. For me, this is how the current universe works. I don't see that if one were to socket Eth runes, just to exploit the bug that it also does ITD on bosses that it would be particularly wrong, just cheesy. Or, another thing I've heard done that I think is cheesy is repeatedly summoning fire golems to use their splash damage. Cheesy means not worthy of merit. When I take my naked punching sorceress that I can only play whilst blind folded past Hell Baal, I'll be sure to brag it up.

I respect the Lounge as a place for encouraging players to step beyond the cookie cutter builds, only focusing on the handful of Uber weapons, and attempting more challenging and interesting play styles.

There are so many other things that are just clearly wrong, like 3rd party hacks, or using hacked items.

BTW, "aura flashing is cheating" -- Do you mean paladins that flash between fanaticism and conviction, and some people think that is cheating? Again, IMO, that is the way that the D2 universe works, however Blizzard has made it.

[jdirks]

I think one has to be very careful about the word "cheating"

People throw it around a lot: "twinking is cheating, eth is cheating, aura flashing is cheating"

Now the Lounge is a place where cheats are banned

I think one should only use that particular word if you feel so strongly that you want the person banned for what they are doing

The word cheesy is very apt if you find these play methods annoying but not outright worthy of an instant ban, imo

I think it helps the people who use hacks a very great deal if we legit players throw the cheat word at each other. "Everyone cheats" is one of their favourite arguments and is a justification in the minds of many cheats

It also is brutal on the new player who has innocently moved items from one character to another to discover they're a cheat in the minds of some other people

I don't think people here have the same mental category for people who twink and people who drophack. So let's expand our vocabulary to use the proper words for what we want to describe  B)

sorry to quote your entire post, but I felt it to be a very fine post, and the thoughts presented were IMO 100% on target.

As I stated in my opening, I myself do not consider twinking to be cheating. Not at all, though there re those who disagree.

Ex, my 42 lvl Barb runs across a very nice 3-socket shield with some skill adds for a Pally. Perhaps (with abit of luck) even an add to Smite skills. If this Barb then mules that shield to my Pally, and my Pally mules to the Barb some chipped gems for use in cubing some magic item or other, how is this any different from buying an item from a merchant and exchanging gold for it?

Yes, there are groups who play by stricter codes, 'living off the land' for ex, where use of merchants is banned. IF you are playing a character with one of those groups, THEN I'd clearly call twinking as cheating vs cheesy. IF, the characters involved in the 'twink' (?) exchange items regardless of value, but said exchange provides some degree of benefit to each, THEN I'd refrain from even calling it twinking. More of a trade. Simply one done by one player and 2 characters, vs 2 players and 2 characters. Finally, IF the 'twink' is consistently one-way, THEN I'd call it cheesey. But thats me. :D

[Occhidiangela]

So let's expand our vocabulary to use the proper words for what we want to describe

Yes, precision in thought and expression, and taking the moment to choose the best word, or clearest term, for what one is trying to get across is absolutely a great habit.

Cheese versus Cheat.

I can't agree with you any more than I already do.