Hellgate:London

[Warlock]

Got the demo and enjoyed it, though it seems to just kinda putter out (get to the first station, do a couple of easy quests, open a door... but though there's a zone past it that door it has no quests and there's never a 'now buy the full game' screen.

I couldn't tell from the demo how later characters will play - is it 'I have lots of points in xxxxx so I'll just use that over and over' or do you use a wider mix of skills based on the foe, cooldowns and equipment you have?

[ima_nerd]

Got the demo and enjoyed it, though it seems to just kinda putter out (get to the first station, do a couple of easy quests, open a door... but though there's a zone past it that door it has no quests and there's never a 'now buy the full game' screen.

I couldn't tell from the demo how later characters will play - is it 'I have lots of points in xxxxx so I'll just use that over and over' or do you use a wider mix of skills based on the foe, cooldowns and equipment you have?

It seems to me that you'll be able to have more than one skill maxed out. The skill trees aren't that big and I didn't notice any sort of synergy system so multiple skills should be both available and viable.

After talking to a friend of mine who made it slightly further than me in beta before he stopped playing (level 13 to my level 9), it seems that it does, in fact, get harder at some point. Basically, even by yourself, mobs take more than one or two hits to die. This, plus Epic mode (I think that's what it's called. Mobs hit harder and have more life) and grouping up (Diablo style mob scaling) will make multiple skills and somewhat strategic combat a necessity, I hope.

[Quark]

NDA is lifted!

I got into the Beta only a few days ago and haven't stopped playing since.
...
Dislikes:
-Does it ever get hard? I was level 9 and had just gotten to Charing Cross Station and as a Blademaster (a class that perhaps need to be nerfed?), I never really felt challenged. In fact, I didn't die once and I never got a HC D2 character past 22 (ie I am not a cautious player.)

Early in the beta, difficulty was swinging back and forth rapidly, but as a whole the game itself was much harder. As the game got easier, people brought it up. The developers stated the intention was to make it so that for release, it started off easy and then ramped up in difficulty. Unfortunately, at having a small level cap, we mostly only saw the "easy" part.

And yes, Epic/Nightmare might get interesting. We'll see.

[oldmandennis]

I beat the beta. It was pretty easy, although as mentioned this is the beginning part of the game and it's supposed to be pretty easy. WoW was too to level 25. The thing that worries me is that WoW was hinting at the parts of the game that were harder (RFC-WC) - I'm not sure how difficult randomized generic enemies can get.

Also it may depend on the class you play - at 16 it seemed like difficulty was starting to tick upwards for my blademaster.... but it also seemed like his skills were bugged, so I made an engineer. The engineer cruised through the end of beta, despite his bugged skills. Unfortunately I didn't know how they were going to handle the rest of the beta (you had to cap a character by a certain date to see the rest of the game), so I didn't bother grinding to 22.

[Monkey]

A question I have for anyone who played more than me: are there ever bosses that are challenging or require a group? For instance, I could go start a single-player D2 game and get to Andy but would probably not be able to kill her until I got a few more levels. Is there anything of that level in HGL? Also, on that note, do the surroundings ever change? Maybe not as drastically as between acts in Diablo but... anything? Perhaps something coinciding with aforementioned challenging boss?

My experience had a similar 'does this get harder?' feeling in the early beta. Especially when I grouped with a Blademaster and watched him tear bosses in half without any help from me. But as I repeated certain zones (The British Museum, for example) over time with different characters, they would become more complex and challenging.

And then last night the same people who got me into WoW (those bastards!) asked me to roll a fresh character with them. It was initially only mildly challenging, but as we followed the main questline (skipping all unrelated dungeons), it scaled quickly. Soon, only our guardian could take more than a couple hits. Sekworm turned out to be pretty challenging, and the Emperor Guldar event was insanely difficult.

Much of the difficulty we encountered was compounded by (among other things) buggy portals and positioning. My teammates (especially those without prior HGL experience) would run through the portal and get caught in an endless load-to-the-other-side loop. I.e., they'd get stuck going in and out of hellrift because it's really techy about your position.

And just FYI, we were playing on 'normal'--FSS has announced two additional difficulty options for subscribers:
1. Elite: More and More difficult mobs
2. Hardcore: No resurrection options available
You can stack them for "Elite Hardcore" if you want, as well.

After a few more nights of group play, I'll have a more in-depth review for the Lounge.

[ima_nerd]

-snip-

That is good to hear. My friends here at school and I are all quitting our WoW raiding guild so hopefully they'll be up for paying the subscription cost so we can get access to the other game modes. On that note, have they said how much it would be per month? I briefly poked around the internet but couldn't find anything concrete.

[Thecla]

On that note, have they said how much it would be per month?

The monthly HG:L subscription (US --- different euro and UK prices) is $9.95 (let's say $10). There is also the option of a lifetime $149.99 Founder's Offer (let's say, umm, $150) for people who are willing to take the risk, or are rich enough not to worry, and preorder the game from one of the approved sources (in the US anyway, and subject to a somewhat nebulous and not entirely explained cap of 100,000--125,000 founder members, which may or may not have any practical relevence). This option would have to be exercised within the first month (Nov 2007). One big advantage of the non-subscriber/subscriber HG:L model is that you can unsubscribe but still continue playing the game on a casual basis, or try it again on a whim 9 months later (as opposed to WoW, say, where once you unsubscribe, you're just locked out unless you resubscribe).

As far as HG:L difficulty goes, elite mode (subscriber only) definitely seems challenging --- more like some of the Diablo mods (like V&K or the Dark) than the original Diablo. That's a good thing, since I think the 100% server side system of multiplayer HG:L, good as it hopefully will turn out to be in enforcing legitimate play, won't be too friendly to any third-party mod makers.

[Iolair]

...
One big advantage of the non-subscriber/subscriber HG:L model is that you can unsubscribe but still continue playing the game on a casual basis, or try it again on a whim 9 months later (as opposed to WoW, say, where once you unsubscribe, you're just locked out unless you resubscribe).

...

True. Although you will be locked out from a lot if you don't pay. You only have 3 character slots on the free to play version, versus 24 (last I heard) on the subscribtion version. If you then pay and create more than 3 characters, you will be locked out from the extras if you stop to pay. The characters will be in a 'void' so to speak and will not be deleted.
You will also loose access to the extra classes you gain from paying, and the extra stash space. I don't know what will happen if you have socketed armor and you then stop to pay. As far as I was told, you don't have access to socketed armor if you don't pay.

So you are technically right, when you say you are not locked out if you stop to pay, but I wonder if it won't feel like being locked out, because you will loose access to such much you had before.

[roguebanshee]

If you then pay and create more than 3 characters, you will be locked out from the extras if you stop to pay. The characters will be in a 'void' so to speak and will not be deleted.

They were working on a system so you could pick which characters were in the 3 non-subscriber spots during the beta. I have yet to hear how far they got with that.

[Iolair]

They were working on a system so you could pick which characters were in the 3 non-subscriber spots during the beta. I have yet to hear how far they got with that.

That's actually good news, thanks for sharing:)

I have looked forward to this game for a long time (like so many others), but I don't think I will buy it.
I mostly played D2 as single player. I still play D2 as SP, using mods and still enjoying the game.

I recently discovered that even with a subscription I won't get access to the cool features in SP. So even if I pay, I still won't get access to the extra classes and content in SP. The 10$ subscription is only for online play and the extra goodies are only for online play.

That disappointed me a lot, I thought if I payed I would unlock things and I could then also access them in SP, but no.

Anyways, I hope all of you that are getting the game will be having a blast:)
Happy gaming to you all.

[roguebanshee]

That disappointed me a lot, I thought if I payed I would unlock things and I could then also access them in SP, but no.

There was talk of expansion packs doing that for the SP crowd, but we'll have to wait and see how that holds up. I would, however, expect FSS to focus on the online crowd as their first priority.

I'll probably be playing HG:L in SP mode myself, I have little personal use for the various chat channels and I rarely team up with others.

[oldmandennis]

The servers were fairly stable, once they came up (about 2hr late) yesterday. The not being able to subscribe thing is a bit annoying.

[TheDragoon]

FYI, The Amazon Basin (a long-time friendly group toward Lurkers) has started up on the Shulgoth server in the US. Just wanted to let all the Lurkers know that Shulgoth might be a good server to roll on if you're starting up in the game. :)

[LochnarITB]

FYI, The Amazon Basin (a long-time friendly group toward Lurkers) has started up on the Shulgoth server in the US. Just wanted to let all the Lurkers know that Shulgoth might be a good server to roll on if you're starting up in the game. :)

That was the only server that showed for the US when I signed on with the beta client to grab Lochnar. I was able to get it too, so I didn't have to use Lochnarr like in the beta. BTW, does anyone know if the chat box auto-toggles when you get a tell? I have had the chat window toggled off which means that, not only don't I see all the general chat garbage, but I don't see "it doesn't fit in inventory" and system messages and tells. :(

[LtWarhound]

http://www.gamebunny.com/?page_id=3192

Some additional information on the pay to play side of HG:L, I must say, this isn't making me want to buy the game.

[Quark]

I just don't understand it.

Diablo II you never paid an extra dime. You also never got anything new. What came in the box is what you got. Why is Hellgate: London's non-subscription mode any different from that?

[LtWarhound]

D2, I bought it, I installed it, and I got everything in the game.

HG:L, I buy it, I install it, and I get a crippled copy unless I want to pony up a monthly subscription fee and _keep paying it. When I compare this gouging model to the D2 and Guild Wars model, all sorts of warning bells go off. This screams gouge gouge gouge, and I expect further fees to pop up. Say, something like, after you buy the expansion, you have to pay the existing monthly fee + a expansion monthly fee.

[Quark]

D2, I bought it, I installed it, and I got everything in the game.

HG:L, I buy it, I install it, and I get a crippled copy unless I want to pony up a monthly subscription fee and _keep paying it. When I compare this gouging model to the D2 and Guild Wars model, all sorts of warning bells go off. This screams gouge gouge gouge, and I expect further fees to pop up. Say, something like, after you buy the expansion, you have to pay the existing monthly fee + a expansion monthly fee.

It's not crippled! Seriously. Get over it. If you can't enjoy the game that comes in the box for the price you pay, you're seriously looking at the wrong genre to begin with. I have no intention of subscribing, yet, as my priorities are currently elsewhere, but I'm having a ton of fun with my not crippled experience.

[AtomicKitKat]

I was at the Singapore launch. Got a few pics of Max and Erich Schaefer. Don't know which is which, but the bald one had a lot of nicks on his head. :(Got some pics of the models dressed as Cabal and Templar. Also picked up a Templar model(no, the 5 inch one, not the 5' one!:P) at a discount. Looks quite good, except for the fact that no matter how I look at it, it's impossible to make the model grip the sword!:angry:Couldn't be arsed to queue up for the game, coupled with a distinct lack of time, and space on my laptop, looks like I won't be playing it for a while.:unsure:

[Xiuhcoatl]

It's not crippled! Seriously. Get over it. If you can't enjoy the game that comes in the box for the price you pay, you're seriously looking at the wrong genre to begin with. I have no intention of subscribing, yet, as my priorities are currently elsewhere, but I'm having a ton of fun with my not crippled experience.

Actually it is crippled and seriously so. I did not buy the game; I am playing the "beta" version but aside from not being able to advance into Monument Station the beta version is the full version and it is very lacking. My main complaint is that to get more storage space I would have to buy a monthly subscription. This is very wrong in a game that spams your inventory with useless garbage (you can not select the items you want to pick up; the game does it for you when you hit "F" and it will fill your inventory with so much crap that I spend half my time dealing with that trash. In addition to the regular decon trash those who are playing online will be spammed with many Halloween Event items, some of which stack only to "2".). The only way to create more mobile storage space without visiting town every 5 kills is to de-construct items and this requires, you guessed it, an open inventory. While the inventory is open you cannot attack or defend so pray nothing spawns on top of you while you are sorting through all your "treasures" that the "f-key" got for you. If you want to party with strangers I recommend mastering the techinique of deconstructing on the fly to lessen game play interruptions. This interruption can be a serious impediment to the momentum of the game. Anyone who holds immersion as a high priority in games might want to forgo looting once the inventory is full. Every party member only sees loot drops generated for them; this has pros and cons.

Back in town your storage space will be quickly filled by L16 or so. A game that is so item centric such as this one needs to give players more room without a monthly fee. There is an npc that offers some nice random items for you to craft with all the components you collect from deconstrution but without adequate storage space this is a mixed blessing. I cannot enjoy a game that requires incessant inventory juggling that only gets worse as I level my character. If I bought the game I seriously doubt I would play a character beyond L30. There is no postal service in the game so transferring items to friends or other characters must be done online with the help of someone else.

The memory leak has been improved upon since last Friday's patch but game freezing and crashes are still common. Some people might think this is okay for a new game but I disagree. The scenery is uninspired. Even classic Diablo had better dungeon layouts. Many of the class skills seem to be poorly developed as if the entire class was an afterthought. The inability to see what effect attribute points have combined with no option to change point distribution and only 3 character creation slots further cripples Hellgate for those who want to experiment with different character classes and skill specializations. Deleting a character is NOT a viable option to me.

I have only "beta tested" for one week so my opinions might be based on inadequate play time; however, during that time I have played a blade master, guardian, evoker and engineer all to levels 10-20. I doubt I will buy Hellgate and if I did I would not pay for a subscription. I would rather renew my WoW account.