Not Again.

[Doc]

This just gives me a headache.

LINCOLN, Neb. - In a move decried by some as state-sponsored segregation, the Legislature voted Thursday to divide the Omaha school system into three districts one mostly black, one predominantly white and one largely Hispanic.

Supporters said the plan would give minorities control over their own school board and ensure that their children are not shortchanged in favor of white youngsters.

Republican Gov. Dave Heineman signed the measure into law.

Omaha Sen. Pat Bourne decried the bill, saying, "We will go down in history as one of the first states in 20 years to set race relations back."

"History will not, and should not, judge us kindly," said Sen. Gwen Howard of Omaha.

Attorney General Jon Bruning sent a letter to one of the measure's opponents saying that the bill could be in violation of the Constitution's equal-protection clause and that lawsuits almost certainly will be filed.

But its backers said that at the very least, its passage will force policymakers to negotiate seriously about the future of schools in the Omaha area.

The breakup would not occur until July 2008, leaving time for lawmakers to come up with another idea.

"There is no intent to create segregation," said Omaha Sen. Ernie Chambers, the Legislature's only black senator and a longtime critic of the school system.

He argued that the district is already segregated, because it no longer buses students for integration and instead requires them to attend their neighborhood school.

Chambers said the schools attended largely by minorities lack the resources and quality teachers provided others in the district. He said the black students he represents in north Omaha would receive a better education if they had more control over their district.

Coming from Chambers, the argument was especially persuasive to the rest of the Legislature, which voted three times this week in favor of the bill before it won final passage on the last day of the session.

Omaha Public Schools Superintendent John Mackiel said the law is unconstitutional and will not stand.

"There simply has never been an anti-city school victory anywhere in this nation," Mackiel said. "This law will be no exception."

The 45,000-student Omaha school system is 46 percent white, 31 percent black, 20 percent Hispanic, and 3 percent Asian or American Indian.

Boundaries for the newly created districts would be drawn using current high school attendance areas. That would result in four possible scenarios; in every scenario, two districts would end up with a majority of students who are racial minorities.

Damnit, why wont crap like this just die? At the risk of being tarred and feathed my self, I gotta ask, what the hell do white folks have against us other folk just going about our lives? Why do you have to draw lines in the sand and keep you on one side and us on the other? Why must you hate us? Keep us down? Keep us seperated? Keep us beneath you? Why does this culture of priviledge and superiority keep robbing all of us with the wrong skin colour of our basic human rights and our dignity? What the hell have we done wrong to deserve this? And why does it keep happening? These constant assaults on our God given rights as human beings... All these years, and I still don't get it.

My wife don't get it either, and she's white. She said sometimes she is ashamed to be the colour she is. She shouldn't be. Ya'll everybody needs to stop being pricks and just be nice to one another. It aint so hard. That goes for all you black supremacists that's been showing your ass round these parts too.

This stuff gets on my damn nerves.

[FoxBat]

Ill temporarily de-lurk for this one...

This just gives me a headache.
At the risk of being tarred and feathed my self, I gotta ask, what the hell do white folks have against us other folk just going about our lives?
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"There is no intent to create segregation," said Omaha Sen. Ernie Chambers, the Legislature's only black senator and a longtime critic of the school system.

The very article you linked shows there's more involved than the "white" folks.

That goes for all you black supremacists that's been showing your ass round these parts too.

I'm not sure if this calls for some pot, kettle, or if you're being intentionally sarchastic here. Saying "what is wrong with you white folks" isn't the best way to make your point. (declaiming "white supremacists" might have been more balanced)

As for my opinon, there are some people of nearly every ethnic background that have an interest in maintaining distinctions along racial lines in the areas they find advantageous. School segregation should probably stay a thing of the past but cultural "segregation" is something most everyone wants to continue, and some amount of friction will also therefore always continue with it, though this can be reduced (but not eliminated) by tolerance.

[Copadope]

I'm confused... Call me dense and uninformed, but judging by what I read in the article I don't see how this qualifies as segregation or racism.

I see a state dividing a large school district into 3 separate districts so that the schools are more closely managed by the parents of the children that attend them. The lines of division just happen to create districts that have different ethnic majorities.

The article says "...the Legislature voted Thursday to divide the Omaha school system into three districts one mostly black, one predominantly white and one largely Hispanic." They're not forcing all blacks into one school, all hispanics into another, and all whites into another.

Again, from the article --"There is no intent to create segregation," said Omaha Sen. Ernie Chambers, the Legislature's only black senator and a longtime critic of the school system.

He argued that the district is already segregated, because it no longer buses students for integration and instead requires them to attend their neighborhood school. -- The neighborhoods around the schools just happen to have different majorities.

This looks to me like a bit of media sensationalism intended to cause a ruckus over what is really a non-issue. "Boundaries for the newly created districts would be drawn using current high school attendance areas." The lines are being drawn by locality and attendance. The racial difference is just a coincidental result.

If the entire district was dominated by one ethnic group, the exact same law could be passed and no one would notice. But because the area is ethnically diverse, different majorities are created by the division and opponents are pointing that out claiming that it's segregation. I disagree.

This law does not rob anyone of their basic human rights or dignity. It's intended to empower locals to have more control over the schools that their children attend.

On the other hand, if state funding for these districts is divided unevenly based on the ethnic majorities represented or other privileges are extended to some but to not others, then I do have a problem with that. I would have a major problem with that. But I don't see that kind of favoritism in the situation described in this article.

[cheezz]

What really gets on my nerves.....

.....are people who complain about equality and use 'us' and 'them' classifications at the same time. There's a mote in your eye, friend.

[kandrathe]

My state doesn't have a good racial balance, so if we don't fix it by exchanging people with 1/2 the population of Alabama...

The bill was crafted to deal with the divisive issue of the OPS "One City, One School District" Plan. The plan, which includes an amendment written by Senators Ernie Chambers and Ron Raikes, will turn the Omaha Public School System into three smaller districts.
...
Chambers and Raikes say the plan would give minorities control over the school board and make sure minority schoolchildren aren't shortchanged in favor of white students.

Nebraska Senator Ernie Chambers
Nebraska Senator Ron Raikes

I don't think Ernie is in the Klan Doc.

I think this is more about rich (whiter) kids parents sending their kids to better (private or suburban) schools, while poorer (browner) kids get bussed all over across Omaha. Public schools are cash strapped with trying to figure out how to pay for fuel to shuffle fewer students around an ever increasing geographically dispersed area. The OPS plan was a school consolidation plan, and when you do that and kids get more hours on the bus each day it makes ALL parents upset.

The point is made on this Blog for another city, Portland -- Rethinking schools: 'choice' has gottta go!

Now, as a libertarian I am all for people having choices, like where to work, or send their children to school. But, I also believe that diverse people can learn to live together in communities. This is another issue not neccesarily about skin color, but more likely about opportunity, education and wages. There will always be some racists and bigots, and we just aren't going to get them to cooperate and they will find the WASP-iest schools where they will send their reichjugendführung.

[Occhidiangela]

Ill temporarily de-lurk for this one...

As for my opinon, there are some people of nearly every ethnic background that have an interest in maintaining distinctions along racial lines in the areas they find advantageous.  School segregation should probably stay a thing of the past but cultural "segregation" is something most everyone wants to continue, and some amount of friction will also therefore always continue with it, though this can be reduced (but not eliminated) by tolerance.
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You raise a point that has me puzzled. Is consensual segregation racism, or a matter of playing the "vive le difference" card by removing a source of friction?

George Wallace, in 1968, had some support of conservative blacks who were not all that keen in assimilation, and who were strong family, non socialist, non statist voters.

It's tricky to wrap one's brain around these things. the best model I can come up with is New York, an example of how it "worked" at one slice of our history some decades ago.

New York was very compartmentalized in its boroughs and neighborhoods. A German neighborhood here, an Irish on there, a Jewish neighborhood over there. This separation was created by immigrants naturally associating, as they got their feeton the ground, with persons "like us." It existed as defacto, informal, segregation. My father had similar experiences with ethnically based neighborhoods in Western Pennsylvania where he grew up.

Is what the folks in Nebraska are doing something similar, via a different means? Or is this something a bit slimier? Given that politics is involved, and professional politicians, I have a large grain of salt handy for this one. :angry:

Worth a lot of looking in to, given how superficial most news reporting is on many subjects.

Doc, I think you are going to hurt your back by jumping to conclusions. ;)

Occhi

[FoxBat]

You raise a point that has me puzzled.  Is consensual segregation racism, or a matter of playing the "vive le difference" card by removing a source of friction? 
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Some people (not always wrongly) lump associating differences (and massed differences) between races as racism. Theres an element of "tolerate different people", and then there's an element of "your skin color shoudln't mean anything," i.e. different colored people aren't different. These aren't completely congruous trends as you've noted.

What you call "racism" in this messy inbetween is somewhat arbitrary. The real question is what sort of line is beneficial to draw... which is basically what you are asking and I find just as difficult to answer.

[GriffonSpade]

Some people (not always wrongly) lump associating differences (and massed differences) between races as racism.  Theres an element of "tolerate different people", and then there's an element of "your skin color shoudln't mean anything," i.e. different colored people aren't different.  These aren't completely congruous trends as you've noted.

What you call "racism" in this messy inbetween is somewhat arbitrary.  The real question is what sort of line is beneficial to draw... which is basically what you are asking and I find just as difficult to answer.
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Let's just all agree on the fact that whoever wrote this article is a terrorist for trying to incite riots, have the loser arrested, and then get someone who can make this make sense instead of confusing us into a riot, and leave it at that, eh? Good thing you got us to get our tar and feathers ready Doc.

[Adairan]

This topic has even moved me to make my 2nd maybe 3rd post here.
I grew up in a place known as Harlan County. Often referred to as Bloody Harlan, a nickname given from an old coalmining strike, in which many many people died. 2 HBO doccumentaries have been made in the last 10 or so years, one on what it is to be a 'hillbilly' was called American Hollow. Talks much about the backwoods. Another talked about the drug problems in the area.

Now there are 5 main sections of Harlan.
'Evarts'-Mostly Aferican american,
'Cawood/Cranks'-Mostly white hillbilly side,
'Wallins'-mostly mixed hispanics<very few full blooded hispanics anywhere>,
'Cumberland'-the White city slickers.
'Downtown Harlan'-Rich side of town, mostly white.

Growing up I was never taught to hate anyone based on the color of skin or any such, but many were.

There are 4 major high schools.
Evart - Mostly black student
James A Cawood - Hillbilly whites and mixed hispanics
Cumberland - City slicker Whites
City of Harlan - Rich people

I was a 'hillbilly' from cranks myself. Now first off put away everything you think a Hillbilly is and think of a normal smart intelligent person who so happened to grow up in the hills and mountains and was taught how he/she 'can' live of the land. Its more to the truth of things.

City slickers are also bright intelligent as anyone, just grew up knowing the city life, not the mountain life, i often find myself getting lost in my new home, being that its about 100 times the size of Harlan and mostly city. But I guarantee I say i had 'Polk Sallet" for dinner last night and confuse the hell outta most people around me. Its a wild green by the way, poisonius in its adult form, delicious in its first 3 weeks of life.
Not deadly in adult form but would cause much need to call into work heh. But I regress.

My junior year of HS a single black student decided to attend JACHS <James A. Cawood High School> and I was absolutely apalled by the reaction the student body had. I would see people move as quick as possible out of his way just to avoid 'touching' him. I saw this young man take beatings every other week by multiple people. As soon as his first semester was over he transfered back to Evarts. Sadly i can imagine a much similar fate was given to those whites/hispanics that went to evarts.

Segregation is indeed a horrific thing. But as was mentioned about New York people often find their own nooks and crannys to be together with their own type in, and it has been far too long this has gone on. If the future is ever to look bright on the subject of racism we must all at a young age be given the chance to make our own judgements of other races via our exposure to them, be it school or neighboring. If this place does indeed put seperate schools, in seperate parts of town, for seperate types of people, then im afraid it would become much as Harlan county is. In fact it would regresss in time to be exactly like Harlan i would wager. Putting them apart is only a way to ensure the underlying hatred that many hold is given a way to brew into violence, instead of given a chance to turn into undertsanding.

Lurking around,
Adairan

[Occhidiangela]

Harlan County
==
Lurking around,
Adairan
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Do you remember bussing? Do you remember the riots in Boston over bussing?

Social engineering is a funny thing. One of the more successful efforts at social engineering that I have personally experienced has been the deliberate integration of the Armed Forces. The "content of one's character" norm has nearly been achieved, in my opinion.

I don't know how many settings allow the sort of control that permit that sort of evolution, which took over a generation and considerable political will.

I get the feeling that there is a deliberate over emphasis on race in the public debate. This, as I see it, feeds a theme of Balkanization along social lines that are specifically drawn on "racial lines." I don't think it is anything other than deliberate, but part of various moves to craft cliques, groups, and voting blocs by using a strand of group identity as a tool.

There was a sustained effort since the 1950's to break down the barriers between people. This social movement was active as I grew to adulthood and entered the complicated world of different folks from different backgrounds finding ways to work things outs, to resolve conflict or disagreement.

I find that the 24/7 image production, and for that matter the compartmentalization of the Internet, as forces being used to stand that ideal on its head, from all directions.

The re segregation you are seeing is, it seems to me, being reinforced over and over by the images and messages being broadcast 24/7. I don't consider that a healthy development if one wishes a choesive society.

Occhi

[Doc]

Lurking around,
Adairan
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Howdyedo, thanks for unlurking.

Polk weeds sure is tasty when they are young and tender aint they? And you can harvest them right off the roadside most times. Serve em with blackeyed peas, maybe a bit of fatback.

For a couple of moments, I could almost hear the drawl in your typing. Country don't mean dumb. (But it usually means common sense and wisdom, heh)

I dunno, just felt like I had to say something. Glad to see ya posting.

[Guest]

Stupid non-whites.


Im not racist really, but its absurd to be blaming whites for this extremely bad idea. Im sure some whites are involved but I have seen members of at least one other race loudly championing this measure.

Doc would do well to be less racist I guess.

[Occhidiangela]

Stupid non-whites.
Im not racist really, but its absurd to be blaming whites for this extremely bad idea. Im sure some whites are involved but I have seen members of at least one other race loudly championing this measure.

Doc would do well to be less racist I guess.
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Bigots and racists, and other sorts of chauvinists, are available irrespective of race, creed, color, religion, national origin, or other appropriate affiliation.

Got variety. Yes.

Is this a great country, or what? :lol:

Occhi

[Alram]

What follows are a few miscellaneous memories about race when I was growing up.

I grew up in Brooklyn in an integrated neighborhood with integrated schools. In grammar school all my classes were mixed. In Jr. High school I was in an "SP" class for kids who were able to skip a grade based on their test scores. There were no blacks in any SP classes. After I made it to High school there were again blacks in my classes.

I used to play handball all the time. I played with whoever was on the courts. One day I was playing with 3 black guys. Some Italian girls were playing on the other side. When their ball came over, instead of giving it right back to them, the black guys teased the girls a bit. That night I had to fight an Italian guy who declared me to be a n___r lover.

One night the Italian kids were chasing the black kids out of the playground. One of the blacks threw something at the Italians. It hit an Italian kid in the head and killed him. Both the Italian teenager who was killed, and the black teenager who killed him were mean sadistic unpleasant guys. I did not mourn the absence of either one from the neighborhood. A white friend of mine asked me if I was going to come and help with the fights (they never actually materialized.) I said I didn't know whose side to be on.

[Doc]

Stupid non-whites.
Im not racist really, but its absurd to be blaming whites for this extremely bad idea. Im sure some whites are involved but I have seen members of at least one other race loudly championing this measure.

Doc would do well to be less racist I guess.
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I am at best, a generic shade of brown, and so racially mixed my self that I seriously doubt I could be racist toward much of anything. I can't hate the white folks... I married one. And I have caucasion roots. I can't hate the black folks... I have that in my family tree. Native Americans? That is a majority of my stock. Hispanic? I have that too. Even some gypsy in there.

Of course, I wasn't pale enough to fit in with the white folks growing up, and I wasn't dark enough to fit in with most of the black folks growing up, and the hispanic / cuban types weren't to fond of me either... I just wasn't quite what they was looking for. I got looked down on by my native cousins too. I was either a bit to white or a bit to much something else for their tastes.

Now, please, tell me, who exactly am I being racist against Ghost? I want you to very carefully, and in detail, explain. I need to to tell me exactly which part of my own ass I need to hate, since I am such a terrible racist. And if I am racist to the white folks, somebody had better inform my wife and her family, because I have been very close to them as a dear friend for years and years and years.

And as a completely off topic comment, it is very, very difficult being racially mixed, for the exact reasons I listed above. Way back when, I was classified as "Negroid non-white" for schooling and such. Nobody could figure out what the hell I was. Made life bloody unfair and difficult. I was "coloured" and because of that, excluded. What the hell is "negroid" by the way? And who the hell came up with that word? I'd like to slap his eyeballs right out of his skull.

I can put on a turban and pass my self off as middle eastern very easily. If I dress up in a poncho and the right clothes, I can pass my self off as a Mexican. Depending on what I wear, I can pass my self off as several ethnic types.

I guess this is why I have always felt a kinship with Gonzo from the Muppets. We are both 'Whatevers'.

Census / SS classifies me as hispanic / native american.

[Guest]

Now, please, tell me, who exactly am I being racist against Ghost?


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This is easy. You said.

"Damnit, why wont crap like this just die? At the risk of being tarred and feathed my self, I gotta ask, what the hell do white folks have against us other folk just going about our lives?"

Youre blaming whites specifically for what as it turns out is a bad idea multi-ethnic support.

[Archon_Wing]

Bigots and racists, and other sorts of chauvinists, are available irrespective of race, creed, color, religion, national origin, or other appropriate affiliation.

Got variety.&nbsp; Yes.

Is this a great country, or what?&nbsp; :lol:

Occhi
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:)

We are all unified by stupidity. It's heartwarming in a way.

Perhaps we may have peace when people of diffrent groups realize "Hey, you're just as stupid as I am! "

[Guest]

Im not big on asking peoples race on the internet, but its kind of silly to tell a story about how people treated you on the account of your race with out telling your ethnicity.

[kandrathe]

This is easy. You said.

"Damnit, why wont crap like this just die? At the risk of being tarred and feathed my self, I gotta ask, what the hell do white folks have against us other folk just going about our lives?"

Youre blaming whites specifically for what as it turns out is a bad idea multi-ethnic support.
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... and what makes your conversation with Doc hilarious to me is that Ernie Chambers (one of the leading proponents) is in fact Black (or so it appears to me).

Reading Ernies justification for creating the separate school districts in Omaha is to let the majority black part of Omaha have more control over their schools, and the majority Hispanic part of Omaha to have better control over their schools. Seems that when the entire city of Omaha is one school district that the majority Whites run the show, and the minorities feel left out.

So now we need to move to the issue of affordable housing equity, or the lack of it in the middle class, upscale or more affluent neighborhoods herding low income people into certain areas of the city or state. Poverty and poor districts with low income opportunity and under-funded schools in those areas leads to crime, gangs, drop outs, drugs, and the cycle perpetuates itself.

Yes, people need to take responsibility for their own crap, but then again that is very easy for me to say as a highly educated white man who has never had to fight against racial stereotypes, and discrimination.

[Drasca]

which part of my own ass I need to hate[right][snapback]107560[/snapback][/right]

The gassy phart, and the part constantly using laxatives