Terenas Friday 4/14

[Treesh]

------------- Baron -----------------------
Shadow resist buff is incredibly nice.  I can't imagine making a serious attempt without having the resist buff.  We eventually did it with the shaman healing and no druid for even a minor amount of resist, but it was a real challenge.  With a shadow resist to cloak enchant I'll be sitting at 47, heroism belt will get me a set bonus with +8.  That should amount to 115 with shadow protection, which should be to a pretty significant damage reduction for the Baron, and I only had to sacrifice a few stats (mostly stamina from ring, bow and cloak, but a little strength and armor too)
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We only succeeded in killing the Baron on that last attempt because basically everyone used all their tricks. If you hadn't drunk potions, used your trinkets, whatever other last ditch tricks you had to use Conc, it wouldn't have happened. If folks hadn't burned their healthstones, it wouldn't have happened. Mogo absolutely cannot solo heal that fight without a TON of help from the others in the group and even then it is really damned hard. Although I will say that next time, the mage should stay out of the shadow aura pulses whenever possible. ;) I really, really missed being able to shadow protect folks for that fight. So yes, any 45 minute baron run we do must have a priest along. Simple fact. Well, maybe fazuul solo healing could do it too. He's got more mana and the druid is simply better at healing than a shaman. But I do know for a fact that Mogo will not be able to solo heal any 45 minute Baron run. Maybe some decked out shaman can do it, but with her current gear, it's just not possible.

[Kevin]

Honestly I don't care where we go. Marn still doesn't have the bracers, boots or chest. The chest is simply a matter of likely 20-30 UBRS runs. The boots are simply a matter of 20-30 kills of Nerub'enkan in dead strat. I know Conc has a pair of bracers I could buy on the cheap but I do want to get the epic mounts for Mogo and Marn done before I leave and that would be too much of a set back with how little time I play on Terenas still.

But I really don't care where I go. Dead strat still seems to have the most to offer but I'm not really sure I want to be trying a 45 minute run of it this week , there is pressure to suceed there and I don't know if I want that pressure. I've still never done DM West with him, or the princess quest, and there is honestly a fair bit of gear that I could still get from Tribute runs that I would likely still wear for awhile (even with the set upgrades).

But I really don't care where I go. I'll help out wherever I can and stick with just taking loot that is an upgrade but would be DE'd otherwise. If I'm in competition with someone on loot that would be used I'm auto-passing. I'm still pretty much playing like normal till my break starts but stuff like that it just doesn't make sense for me to walk away with something that would be an upgrade for someone else as well when I'd have it for all of 5 days before I let my account suspend.

[Concillian]

Well, maybe fazuul solo healing could do it too.  He's got more mana and the druid is simply better at healing than a shaman.  But I do know for a fact that Mogo will not be able to solo heal any 45 minute Baron run.  Maybe some decked out shaman can do it, but with her current gear, it's just not possible.
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Yeah seems very difficult for a shaman. Druids also have the benefit of beign able to give almost half the benefit of shadow protection with Mark / Gift of the Wild.

[Concillian]

I know Conc has a pair of bracers I could buy on the cheap but I do want to get the epic mounts for Mogo and Marn done before I leave and that would be too much of a set back with how little time I play on Terenas still.

I sold them for a hefty profit once there was no real guild interest in them. Bought for 20g 50s, sold for 50 (minus auction house cut).

[swirly]

I just realized that Plans: Annihilator drop from the quartermaster in lbrs. My warrior is going to be an axe smith (once I do the quest which also is in lbrs) and so will be able to learn that pattern. I'm also thinking that the Annihilator would be a great main hand tanking weapon for my warrior since its more dps than the others I have and the debuff is useful and stacks with sunder. Course its not cheap to make, but its something for me to aim for. First I need the plans though. So its more reason to want lbrs on my warrior. I don't believe they bind so anybody else who does lbrs could make a point of killing the quartermaster for a shot at them as well. : )

[Concillian]

I just realized that  First I need the plans though.  So its more reason to want lbrs on my warrior.  I don't believe they bind so anybody else who does lbrs could make a point of killing the quartermaster for a shot at them as well. : )
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They don't bind, but I'm pretty sure you have to have blacksmithing 300 to pick them up. I think if you don't have 300 BS, you end up with a blank loot-box.

At least this is what happened in strat live. I opened the hammersmith plans and could see them, but Sir_Die could not.

[Concillian]

Ooh, I forgot about EZ-Thro dynamite II. I can make a bunch of that for the 45 minute runs.

We can probably kill the little skellie spawns after Ram with just holy water and EZ-thro =)

[swirly]

They don't bind, but I'm pretty sure you have to have blacksmithing 300 to pick them up.  I think if you don't have 300 BS, you end up with a blank loot-box.

At least this is what happened in strat live.  I opened the hammersmith plans and could see them, but Sir_Die could not.
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Well I don't believe this is a special thing like the strat live plans. This is just a basic 10% chance to drop from a boss kill kind of thing. I could be wrong about that, but its the impression that I get.

[Xame]

For my build, which is arms, there is a different option that I'm not sure is faster or slower.  The basic idea is:
- someone with quick aggro build (hunter pet, shaman with earth shock, something like that) grabs ahold of the the first FF mob.
- 2H warrior charges and uses Sweeping strikes and WW and Cleave to hold the rest of the pull off the healers, damaging all of them in the meantime.
- after first FF target is down, either switch to AoE or FF the rest, probably FF.

I believe it is faster going shield and stick then pulling out the 2 hander. This gives the warrior time to build some aggro and the mage to drink. My frost bolts are more mana efficent and cause better damage then going all out aoe. Yes the AoE drops the mobs faster but in the long chain of pulls the FF works better for speed.

----------- drinking / eating ------------------
Usual habits are to only drink/eat when necessary, but I think on the 45 minute run a better strategy is to LOAD UP on the mage food and water and eat/drink in small bursts. 

This is the normal state of things. I normally start at 200 waters for myself and give everyone about 80 waters. I also keep a stack of bread for myself to help out the healers. But I always get a heal even when I'm down drinking and eating. We might shave a few seconds if everyone also takes some bread so we don't waste the mana for the flash heal.

Obviously the largest factor is practice.  There were several accidental steps into pulls that we shouldn't have pulled on Friday, we have to practice skipping pulls because they have to be skipped.  We have to get used to not being able to step places we can on a normal run.

I believe we need to make sure we make the pulls safe. Some of the time setting up a fancy pull would be better spent just killing some of the trash. In paticular, the three ghoul pull to the right, just when you start the timed area, (where we wiped on friday because of a mis-step) would be safer just to take them out. They are marked on the map as to be left alone but the would be quick and clean and would reduce the risk during the MC.

I believe if we think in terms of safe, clean pulls we should be able to make the 45 minutes. That is with each of us doing our job without having to resort to strange, non-standard tactics.

------------- Baron -----------------------
Shadow resist buff is incredibly nice.  I can't imagine making a serious attempt without having the resist buff.  We eventually did it with the shaman healing and no druid for even a minor amount of resist, but it was a real challenge.  With a shadow resist to cloak enchant I'll be sitting at 47, heroism belt will get me a set bonus with +8.  That should amount to 115 with shadow protection, which should be to a pretty significant damage reduction for the Baron, and I only had to sacrifice a few stats (mostly stamina from ring, bow and cloak, but a little strength and armor too)
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The trick to the barron is getting ready for the fight before the fight. That is, putting down the shadow resist and other buffs and getting back to full mana. If we have the time to prep, the fight should go smoothly.

As far as the mage standing in the aura, I've found that the fight goes better with the mage in the aura. The risk of a heal to the baron is unacceptable and the aoe splash damage on the baron is a good bit of extra dps in a 5 man. Also I would spend (and have spent) too much time running around in the aura to kill the healing skeletons and then back to the healer aggro skeletons. A good position in the aura just makes things run smoother with less running around. The down side is that the mage needs to watch his health with a health pot (and thus cannot use a mana pot). Also I am wearing mostly high int gear and not my normal +dmg set. This clothing change out will be a factor in the 45min run.

Oh; and shaman can heal the fight! Everyone just needs to play at the top of their game. But I would agree that the shadow protection buff puts the fight in easy mode :D . Don't be down on your healing Treesh, it was a great fight and I really enjoyed it and best of all, we drop him!!!

BTW. With the new AD trinket many of us have picked up since last Friday, some of the dps numbers should go up quite a bit. It, plus other gear that I won this week, give me a 20% boost in +dmg gear. Fear me now Barron......

[Sir_Die_alot]

If you don't have the boots GG we should get together some quicky farming runs for them. The boss is not very deep at all so farming him in a guild run wouldn't be difficult. I bet we could farm your boots in less than an hour. Or we could do some practice runs (anyone who expects to do this first try can join the other group :P ) and you would almost certainly get your boots in those runs.

After attempting this a couple more times I think a hunter is almost a necessity. I tried it with my guild on TN where everyone is wearing a fair deal of purple (we had a shaman solo healing for example, Treesh ;) ) and we got *very* close. I think we would have done it if it wasn't me (warrior) pulling but someone who can duck out of the fight to pull the next without hampering a vital role (healing/tanking) and has an instant shot pulling ability. *coughhunter* :D

Here is a modification of one of the maps posted with my own rout. I think this one is better because it has a couple fewer fights and also trades some fights with those hard-hitting-difficult-to-pull shadow bolt casters for ghoul fights.

clicky

[Treesh]

everyone is wearing a fair deal of purple (we had a shaman solo healing for example, Treesh ;) ) and we got *very* close.
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And that goes right along with me saying "maybe some decked out shaman can do it", although you guys didn't make it either. We aren't that geared up yet and neither is Mogo so I'm saying, right now, how things are, she can't solo heal a 45 minute Baron, but she can certainly help out with the healing just fine. :D

[vor_lord]

So let me sum up a bunch of things people have contributed (thanks everyone!). We'll start with this, subsequent discussion can revise/change it.

• Conc, Necrali, Fazuul, Octord, Yuri for one group Friday.<>
  
• Start as soon as Conc gets there.<>
  
• Limited healing between fights, use bread/water between fights for mana users<>
  
• Shield tank and CC. Looking for steady progress, DPS should ride the line of pulling aggro but try not to pull it. We'll try to skip shackling to allow Necrali to drink/eat at the start of all fights.<>
  
• When only one mob is left, try to start the next pull (maybe let Yuri tank it for a bit!)<>
  
• Necrali will do as much of the healing as possible. Will get innervate if she gets too low. When that is exhausted trade for next fight or two to regen. This will be made most effective if Fazuul has DPS gear and healing gear, and a mod to switch them before a fight. Might not have time to get one set up for him. If not, I suggest some good balanced gear as he'll be DPS, tanking a little, and healing.<>
  
• Necrali will be sticking to mana free/cheap DPS (wand) unless she starts getting close to full of mana. On pulls where we only have one mob not controlled, generally a renew is sufficient healing. I'll add DPS wherever I can. The new fast greater heal makes switching between wand and healing safer. edit: Perhaps without shackle and a bit of mage tanking, I'll not have much opportunity for DPS.<>
  
• I like Sir_Die's suggestion about killing ghoul groups rather than shadowcasters if we can make a clear choice.<>
  
• For CC, decide before we even start how to choose which sheep, for example, always pick left, right, or this particular type (necromancer?) and prefer the left for example. Shadowcasters we can just tank with our casters (I _really_ wish I had the shadow protect book).<>
  
• After miniboss kill, Yuri and Necrali clear ziggurat, remaining three start next pull with Fazuul healing.<>
  
• Necrali will announce when the lightwell is available.<>
  [st]
  Changes? Addendums?
  
  edit: Made some changes and addendums

[WimpySmurf]

Necrali
Swirlywar
Yuri
Marn
Mogo

Fazuul
Conc
Mistique
Octord
Xarhud

we still have people left over though... Nashkara (where's he at in quests?&nbsp; I know he won't go to strat dead otherwise), Keshoga (is she ready for the quest?), possibly Wimpy, Rogoll for a while and he missed out last week...

Well if swirlywar is interested, we could have the warriors pick teams.&nbsp; Draft picks, trades... you know&nbsp; :P
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Wimpy will be there Friday night. Should be 59 by then or very very close.

[Mirajj]

Sounds like you guys are on a solid track. Myself and a crew did this yesterday in 40 minutes...but it was tight, and we made some mistakes. Here's hoping you smash it wide open! Good luck!

[Alram]

I spent some time on the web this morning researching rogue equipment. My suspicions were confirmed. Not only is the Shadowcraft set inferior to other blues, but the Rogue's Darkmantle Armor is also inferior. I have therefore revised my equipment goals and the places I want to go.

My new list
Pads of the Dread Wolf from Halycon in LBRS
Wyrmtongue Shoulders Strat Live from Balnazzar (no change in location here--just a change in focus from the shoulders that Willey drops)
Bracers of the Eclipse Dire Maul West from Prince Tortheldrin

So, LBRS, Strat Live or DM West would be my first choices.

[VoiceMan]

I think I also agree with Yuri alot. I think this 45 minute run is similar to driving a lot distance. You'll make better time if you can *maintain* a good, steady speed. I think that when in doubt, just do the pull and get it done. That will take less time than trying to recover from a wipe caused by a wandering sheep, or a fear, etc.

What I think I will do, is wear a combination of my DPS and high int gear, to still allow for some decent dps in cat form, and also be able to stand up at any given time and have a large enough mana pool to heal a pull or two with out switching gear and drinking to fill up the mana pool.

Now....what are the rest of the folks in attendance planning on doing? :)

[Sir_Die_alot]

So let me sum up a bunch of things people have contributed (thanks everyone!).&nbsp; We'll start with this, subsequent discussion can revise/change it.

• <>
  
• Conc, Necrali, Fazuul, Octord, Yuri for one group Friday.
  <>
  
• Start as soon as Conc gets there.<>
  [st]

So I'm out in the cold on this one? =(

• <>
  
• No healing between fights, use bread/water between every fight even if only briefly<>
  [st]

Only mana users should be eating/drinking. Heal up everyone else so they are capeable of doing the next fight.

• <>
  
• Shield tank and CC.&nbsp; Looking for steady progress, DPS should ride the line of pulling aggro but try not to pull it.<>
  [st]

It doesn't hurt to tank in battle stance sometimes either. Execute finshers help knock a few seconds off every fight. It's a judgement call here which you need more: taunting or DPS.

• When only one mob is left, Fazuul can start looking ahead to the next pull.&nbsp; If it is a patrol or small pull, go ahead and use moonfire to pull it and bear tank until we catch up.&nbsp; This may take some practice as pull experience for VM here is not too much.
  <>
  
• Necrali will do as much of the healing as possible.&nbsp; Will get innervate if she gets too low.&nbsp; When that is exhausted trade for next fight or two to regen.&nbsp; This will be made most effective if Fazuul has DPS gear and healing gear, and a mod to switch them before a fight.&nbsp; Might not have time to get one set up for him.&nbsp; If not, I suggest some good balanced gear as he'll be DPS, tanking a little, and healing.
  <>
  
• Necrali will be sticking to mana free/cheap DPS (wand) unless she starts getting close to full of mana.&nbsp; On pulls where we only have one mob not controlled, generally a renew is sufficient healing.&nbsp; I'll add DPS wherever I can.&nbsp; The new fast greater heal makes switching between wand and healing safer.<>
  [st]

I suggest you heal or drink. A fight can go a few seconds before you need to heal. Use those to move your mana bar upward a little. Also if you're doing this right the tank *can't* have all the aggro because people are just blasting. Because of this you will be healing low armor players more.

• <>
  
• I like Sir_Die's suggestion about killing ghoul groups rather than shadowcasters if we can make a clear choice.
  <>
  
• &nbsp; For CC, decide before we even start how to choose which sheep/shackle, for example, always pick left, right, or this particular type (necromancer?) and prefer the left for example.
  <>
  
• For our first try, let's try as Yuri suggested, which is to maybe take a couple of pulls that are possible but dangerous to skip.&nbsp; We won't burn our consumables, but will go as fast as possible and map out our route.&nbsp; Depending on how close (or not close) we get to the 45 minutes, will adjust for the next run.<>
  [st]

I suggest against this. Do it like you mean it and get used to not pulling aggro on those groups. You will inevitably get a couple pulls you didn't intend your frist tries. Learning from your mistakes is more effecitve than saying "oh we just won't do that next time".

• After miniboss kill, Yuri and Necrali clear ziggurat, remaining three start next pull with Fazuul healing.
  <>
  [st]
  Changes?&nbsp; Addendums?

A few. :P

[vor_lord]

So I'm out in the cold on this one? =(

I think so this time. There are plenty of other people who'll be playing though.

I suggest you heal or drink. A fight can go a few seconds before you need to heal. Use those to move your mana bar upward a little. Also if you're doing this right the tank *can't* have all the aggro because people are just blasting. Because of this you will be healing low armor players more.
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I suppose we'll have to decide if shackling is a waste of my mana or not. I guarantee once I'm in combat though I'll have time to do some DPS in most fights. Depending on mana levels I may or may not cast a spell for DPS (that's my line about if I get dangerously close to full mana).

I suppose the amount of blasting is one of the things we're trying to gauge -- is waiting for a moment for tank aggro too much? Perhaps. Same with shackling -- might be better to heal through the extra damage taken and take those seconds for more drinking. Perhaps a late shackle (would require coordination to keep it from being broken).

[Concillian]

I suppose the amount of blasting is one of the things we're trying to gauge -- is waiting for a moment for tank aggro too much?&nbsp; Perhaps.&nbsp; Same with shackling -- might be better to heal through the extra damage taken and take those seconds for more drinking.&nbsp; Perhaps a late shackle (would require coordination to keep it from being broken).
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Well it's the kind of thing we can practice a bit before opening by doing some pulls looking for hearthsinger. Or we can do a few pulls in for practice and reset

I expect that no shackle will be fine most of the time. Yuri, Fazuul and Octord all have pretty solid FF DPS. I will have to find the line of aggro on the mobs so they release for Yuri right before they die. This will allow the quickest progression, especially keeping your mana pool up. Like Sir_die suggests, it's probably best to heal people up for the next pull, then sit and drink to keep us going.

Fazuul should really only pull with moonfire when the gargs are up. He will be doing a lot of shifting back and forth otherwise, and that can chew up mana faster than it regens on quick pulls. CoA pulls or counterspell pulls to get things into charge range are another option aside from moonfire. Banshees and gargs like to stay in one place and cast sometimes, and that can get you into trouble in the very beginning when things are congested, so counterspell pulls on those guys can be a good thing.

The necro / shadowcaster pulls should probably be default caster tanked or AoEd. Fazuul and I can FF the skillies down real quick, and the casters do almost the same damage to our casters as to a tank. In the time it takes to LOS them to a safe tanking / CC location, the casters can have them half dead even if they decide they don't want to move... The primary cases where we have to pull the big humanoid pulls are right before bosses anyway, which is conducive for tank engaging while casters drink a little at the start of the pull anyway.

[Concillian]

So I'm out in the cold on this one? =(

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Depends on how many tries it takes us and what else happens. If I get my belt on the attempt that nets us <45 minutes, I'll want to go again =). That's the thing about doing it in 45 minutes, you have several attempts in the timespan of a normal instance run.